d2jsp
Log InRegister
d2jsp Forums > Off-Topic > General Chat > Political & Religious Debate > Russia / Ukraine
Prev13703713723733744528Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll
Member
Posts: 26,558
Joined: Aug 11 2013
Gold: 20,065.00
Apr 8 2022 08:04am
Quote (ferdia @ Apr 8 2022 09:46am)
In terms of China, alot of people look at the Taiwan issue (will China invade or not). I dont know the answer. But my own view is China dont need to invade and its a waste of time and resources to do so. Better to continue building this massive foundation and play the long game. Do I think China could take Taiwan in a heartbeat ? yes. They have the ability to do it. from china's perspective, should they ? no. better to let nature play its course or until such point as they become supreme, noting it is only a matter of time until they reach that point (unless something monumentally steers them off course).

China also will not do a Putin move because the history is not there. Russian contracted. China is China.


Invading a well defended island is also infinitely more difficult versus being able to roll in ground forces across a flat land border. It's one of the main reasons why the US nuked Japan during WW2 instead of trying to invade Japan. Logistically it's a nightmare, and you would have to sacrifice large numbers just to secure some beachhead.

I agree with others though, China doesn't want to militarily take Taiwan. Ultimately I think they will take Taiwan but they will bend them through economics and embargoes. Taiwan can only produce about 35% of the food it needs, so it's largely dependent on sea-trade. You cut that off and they will fold eventually. If China can control Southeast Asian trade by dominating and privatizing trade routes then SE Asia will be effectually folded under Chinese influence. I think that's why they are so keen on domineering the south china sea.
Member
Posts: 43,380
Joined: Aug 25 2008
Gold: 49,930.00
Apr 8 2022 08:11am
Quote (ofthevoid @ 8 Apr 2022 22:04)
Invading a well defended island is also infinitely more difficult versus being able to roll in ground forces across a flat land border. It's one of the main reasons why the US nuked Japan during WW2 instead of trying to invade Japan. Logistically it's a nightmare, and you would have to sacrifice large numbers just to secure some beachhead.

I agree with others though, China doesn't want to militarily take Taiwan. Ultimately I think they will take Taiwan but they will bend them through economics and embargoes. Taiwan can only produce about 35% of the food it needs, so it's largely dependent on sea-trade. You cut that off and they will fold eventually. If China can control Southeast Asian trade by dominating and privatizing trade routes then SE Asia will be effectually folded under Chinese influence. I think that's why they are so keen on domineering the south china sea.


I can assure you the US will not allow China to dominate the trade routes as a matter of fact the US have been trying to woo ASEAN to better contain China. But It has been really tough.

I give you an Idea

Vietnam : Dont really like China
Cambodia : OK relationship with China
Burma : Good relationship with China
Philippines : Used to be good relationship with USA have USA Base but now Durtete cosying up to China
Thailand : Neutral
Singapore : Playing both sides to the West and China but Singapore has a special relationship with China
Indonesia : Hate USA and China
Malaysia : Hate USA and China
Laos : More towards China.
Member
Posts: 32,103
Joined: Dec 29 2009
Gold: 0.00
Apr 8 2022 08:17am
Quote (Norlander @ Apr 8 2022 08:42am)
Russia doesn't have Tochka U as a current MLS, however there for sure will be many in a military storage now shared with Donbass rebels. And they want their kids to be avenged. Probaby not by shelling a railroad station, there were a basement of territory defense, a big one. Poor guys. They are just locals, they have nothing to do with kids being killed in Donetsk.


They've already been seen/filmed redeploying Tochka U units. https://defence-blog.com/russian-tochka-u-ballistic-missiles-return-to-service-amid-ukraine-war/
Member
Posts: 26,558
Joined: Aug 11 2013
Gold: 20,065.00
Apr 8 2022 08:19am
Quote (Hamsterbaby @ Apr 8 2022 10:11am)
I can assure you the US will not allow China to dominate the trade routes as a matter of fact the US have been trying to woo ASEAN to better contain China. But It has been really tough.

I give you an Idea

Vietnam : Dont really like China
Cambodia : OK relationship with China
Burma : Good relationship with China
Philippines : Used to be good relationship with USA have USA Base but now Durtete cosying up to China
Thailand : Neutral
Singapore : Playing both sides to the West and China but Singapore has a special relationship with China
Indonesia : Hate USA and China
Malaysia : Hate USA and China
Laos : More towards China.


Well this is why the US is trying to counter them but if you zoom out I think US is increasingly becoming spread thin. US influence is not what it was lets say 30-40 years ago, it's still miles ahead of most other countries but the gap is getting smaller. US influence is also largely tied to dollar supremacy as the defacto international currency. China has grown tremendously and so has their influence, so the region is increasingly having to weigh competing influences, not as before. I don't think they are ready right now to dominate these routes but they are starting to lay the ground work to do so eventually (literally speaking with creating man-made islands).
Member
Posts: 43,380
Joined: Aug 25 2008
Gold: 49,930.00
Apr 8 2022 08:25am
Quote (ofthevoid @ 8 Apr 2022 22:19)
Well this is why the US is trying to counter them but if you zoom out I think US is increasingly becoming spread thin. US influence is not what it was lets say 30-40 years ago, it's still miles ahead of most other countries but the gap is getting smaller. US influence is also largely tied to dollar supremacy as the defacto international currency. China has grown tremendously and so has their influence, so the region is increasingly having to weigh competing influences, not as before. I don't think they are ready right now to dominate these routes but they are starting to lay the ground work to do so eventually (literally speaking with creating man-made islands).


You are absolutely right.
The sad thing is, the USA is not ready at the moment to co exist with another up and coming economical power i.e China / India.
The last time an Asian economical power came extremely close to the USA, was literally screwed over by the US for about 20 or more years.
And that Asian power is a staunch ally of the United States.

That particular Asian economical power house was getting the "China" treatment about 20 or 30 years back.
If the internet was up and running back then. I can assure you they will be experiencing the " Chines" treatment right now or even worst.

Make a guess which Asian country that is.

This post was edited by Hamsterbaby on Apr 8 2022 08:27am
Member
Posts: 51,717
Joined: Jan 19 2007
Gold: 15,520.00
Apr 8 2022 08:33am
Quote (Hamsterbaby @ Apr 8 2022 03:11pm)
I can assure you the US will not allow China to dominate the trade routes as a matter of fact the US have been trying to woo ASEAN to better contain China. But It has been really tough.

I give you an Idea

Vietnam : Dont really like China
Cambodia : OK relationship with China
Burma : Good relationship with China
Philippines : Used to be good relationship with USA have USA Base but now Durtete cosying up to China
Thailand : Neutral
Singapore : Playing both sides to the West and China but Singapore has a special relationship with China
Indonesia : Hate USA and China
Malaysia : Hate USA and China
Laos : More towards China.



Do one of these for Australia please
Member
Posts: 91,169
Joined: Dec 31 2007
Gold: 2,504.69
Apr 8 2022 08:35am
Quote (Hamsterbaby @ Apr 8 2022 09:25am)
You are absolutely right.
The sad thing is, the USA is not ready at the moment to co exist with another up and coming economical power i.e China / India.
The last time an Asian economical power came extremely close to the USA, was literally screwed over by the US for about 20 or more years.
And that Asian power is a staunch ally of the United States.

That particular Asian economical power house was getting the "China" treatment about 20 or 30 years back.
If the internet was up and running back then. I can assure you they will be experiencing the " Chines" treatment right now or even worst.

Make a guess which Asian country that is.


the economic threat china poses is a secondary issue to their view of what the future should be like should they take over. genocide, state sponsored organ farming, ecological disasters in plant and animal usage, etc.

they are an early 1900s US with all of the mistakes we made, but with 2022 weapons, economy, computers, etc.

a good father does not sit idly by and let his son make the same mistakes he did.
Member
Posts: 43,380
Joined: Aug 25 2008
Gold: 49,930.00
Apr 8 2022 08:35am
Quote (ferdia @ 8 Apr 2022 22:33)
Do one of these for Australia please


I don't get it elaborate . What about Australia.
Anyways, I studied in Australia Melbourne for a couple of years. I might have some superficial insights.
:hail:
Member
Posts: 43,380
Joined: Aug 25 2008
Gold: 49,930.00
Apr 8 2022 08:39am
Quote (thesnipa @ 8 Apr 2022 22:35)
the economic threat china poses is a secondary issue to their view of what the future should be like should they take over. genocide, state sponsored organ farming, ecological disasters in plant and animal usage, etc.

they are an early 1900s US with all of the mistakes we made, but with 2022 weapons, economy, computers, etc.

a good father does not sit idly by and let his son make the same mistakes he did.


Genocide : I might be able to give some insight on this ( Since I am working in the Region )
State Sponsored organ farming : I believe this is blown out of proportion or might be fake news but I wouldn't be surprise if some people are doing it but I will put it at gangs and local corrupted government officials there is some truth to it.
Ecological disaster ( definitely Yes )

Member
Posts: 51,717
Joined: Jan 19 2007
Gold: 15,520.00
Apr 8 2022 08:41am
Quote (Hamsterbaby @ Apr 8 2022 03:35pm)
I don't get it elaborate . What about Australia.
Anyways, I studied in Australia Melbourne for a couple of years. I might have some superficial insights.
:hail:


what I mean is - Australia is also in the sphere of influence of China. By this I mean, Australia recovered much sooner then the rest of the western world to the financial crisis because they were closer economically(for want of a better word) to China then the rest of the world. China as I understand it is asserting pressure within its "sphere of influence" which inconveniently for Australia, includes them. My understanding is therefore:

1. add Australia to your list and thus the list looks like this:

Vietnam : Dont really like China
Cambodia : OK relationship with China
Burma : Good relationship with China
Philippines : Used to be good relationship with USA have USA Base but now Durtete cosying up to China
Thailand : Neutral
Singapore : Playing both sides to the West and China but Singapore has a special relationship with China
Indonesia : Hate USA and China
Malaysia : Hate USA and China
Laos : More towards China.
Australia : Strong relations to West, distrustful of China
Go Back To Political & Religious Debate Topic List
Prev13703713723733744528Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll