d2jsp
Log InRegister
d2jsp Forums > Off-Topic > General Chat > Political & Religious Debate > Russia / Ukraine
Prev1366336643665366636674527Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll
Member
Posts: 51,716
Joined: Jan 19 2007
Gold: 15,520.00
Nov 6 2023 08:23am
Quote (babun1024 @ Nov 6 2023 10:19am)
Interesting, no new updates here, all people talk about the Israeli situation.


no update really until spring. Ukraine has longer range missiles, are getting an unknown quantity of F16's and thats basically it for now. no change in positions. I guess in a month or two we will hear about what both sides have planned for next year (probably not good for anyone).

Quote (Malopox @ Nov 6 2023 01:58pm)
There were a bunch of articles explaining recent misfortunes in Ukraine/:

1. The average western voter needs to be explained who’s to blame that everything failed so far. The United States is to blame for not delivering something on time. The Ukrainian generals who don’t know how to fight are to blame. The stupid Ukrainian soldiers who cannot use Western equipment are to blame. The bushes are to blame. Blame the Christmas trees. The weather is to blame. The Russians are to blame. Putin is to blame. And so on, highlight what is necessary.

2. Ukraine will certainly continue to receive money and weapons to continue the war, stories about a “successful offensive in 2024.” emerging. The United States is not going to end the war in Ukraine. Not now, not in the near future. The fact that it has become more difficult to make it does not mean that it will be abandoned and the war will stop on its own.

3. The best way to end the war for Russia on their terms is the military defeat of UA and replacement of their govt. Its not possible to achieve this quickly, so Russia is preparing for a long struggle with the United States and NATO in Ukraine.


pretty much sums it up. 4+ years and more.

This post was edited by ferdia on Nov 6 2023 08:26am
Member
Posts: 16,936
Joined: Feb 24 2018
Gold: 7,398.00
Nov 6 2023 08:44am
Quote (ferdia @ Nov 6 2023 03:23pm)
no update really until spring. Ukraine has longer range missiles, are getting an unknown quantity of F16's and thats basically it for now. no change in positions. I guess in a month or two we will hear about what both sides have planned for next year (probably not good for anyone).



pretty much sums it up. 4+ years and more.


Afghanistan 2.0 or Syria's Kurds 2.0 when they'll suddenly pull out because of "no alternatives"?
Member
Posts: 8,573
Joined: Mar 2 2006
Gold: 3,391.00
Nov 6 2023 09:07am
Quote (babun1024 @ 6 Nov 2023 15:44)
Afghanistan 2.0 or Syria's Kurds 2.0 when they'll suddenly pull out because of "no alternatives"?


Afghanistan 3.0, but otherwise seems this way.

This is an existential conflict for Russia and Ukraine so both are fighting because alternative is collapse of the state itself.

For US this is just another proxy war to weaken a strategic rival. Once the goal is achieved or abandoned - proxy is abandoned too to fend for itself.
Member
Posts: 26,556
Joined: Aug 11 2013
Gold: 20,065.00
Nov 6 2023 09:19am
Quote (Malopox @ Nov 6 2023 08:58am)
There were a bunch of articles explaining recent misfortunes in Ukraine/:

1. The average western voter needs to be explained who’s to blame that everything failed so far. The United States is to blame for not delivering something on time. The Ukrainian generals who don’t know how to fight are to blame. The stupid Ukrainian soldiers who cannot use Western equipment are to blame. The bushes are to blame. Blame the Christmas trees. The weather is to blame. The Russians are to blame. Putin is to blame. And so on, highlight what is necessary.

2. Ukraine will certainly continue to receive money and weapons to continue the war, stories about a “successful offensive in 2024.” emerging. The United States is not going to end the war in Ukraine. Not now, not in the near future. The fact that it has become more difficult to make it does not mean that it will be abandoned and the war will stop on its own.

3. The best way to end the war for Russia on their terms is the military defeat of UA and replacement of their govt. Its not possible to achieve this quickly, so Russia is preparing for a long struggle with the United States and NATO in Ukraine.


I think there's some real cracks in the war effort. The fact twice now in the US the funding for Ukraine fell through in the span of a few months is a big deal and an indication of the diminished appetite to write blank checks. First it was the sneaking in of Ukraine funding into temp funding bill that at least in part had something to do with McCarthy losing his job, then trying to attach a 60+Bn bundled with Israel that republicans said no to.

This is both due to tightening financial conditions in the US but I think the more important factors are, in the west I think there's many that think the resources are mismanaged. Corruption is rampant in Ukraine with a lot of 'leakage' and the fact that 100+Bn yielded very minimal gains. So what will change with another 60, 100, 200 billion? How long is the commitment for? What are the ultimate goals and are they realistic? How does this actually benefit the US? There's a lot of tough questions, particularly more emphasized approaching a general election.

There's other important factors like the average age of an Ukrainian soldier today is now in the 40s, with the trained units being heavily degraded and now having to rely on older and less optimal recruits. I just don't know how Ukraine can sustain this war with the current rate of losses. The country today is around ~28 million people, with many that could have been drafted, already drafted. Peace has to come, before the country is left with a bunch of women, kids and old men.

Many at the start of the war were saying that Putin wants to erase Ukraine as a country. The reality is, that could become reality, not because Russia wins the war, but because Ukraine and the west insists on fighting without compromise, to the point the country is so bled and so many have left that it will be extremely difficult to recover post-war.

This post was edited by ofthevoid on Nov 6 2023 09:42am
Member
Posts: 19,885
Joined: Apr 13 2016
Gold: 32,502.50
Warn: 10%
Nov 6 2023 10:13am
Quote (Malopox @ Nov 6 2023 01:58pm)
There were a bunch of articles explaining recent misfortunes in Ukraine/:

1. The average western voter needs to be explained who’s to blame that everything failed so far. The United States is to blame for not delivering something on time. The Ukrainian generals who don’t know how to fight are to blame. The stupid Ukrainian soldiers who cannot use Western equipment are to blame. The bushes are to blame. Blame the Christmas trees. The weather is to blame. The Russians are to blame. Putin is to blame. And so on, highlight what is necessary.

2. Ukraine will certainly continue to receive money and weapons to continue the war, stories about a “successful offensive in 2024.” emerging. The United States is not going to end the war in Ukraine. Not now, not in the near future. The fact that it has become more difficult to make it does not mean that it will be abandoned and the war will stop on its own.

3. The best way to end the war for Russia on their terms is the military defeat of UA and replacement of their govt. Its not possible to achieve this quickly, so Russia is preparing for a long struggle with the United States and NATO in Ukraine.


Link the articles?

Quote (Malopox @ Nov 6 2023 03:07pm)
Afghanistan 3.0, but otherwise seems this way.

This is an existential conflict for Russia and Ukraine so both are fighting because alternative is collapse of the state itself.

For US this is just another proxy war to weaken a strategic rival. Once the goal is achieved or abandoned - proxy is abandoned too to fend for itself.


This is a limited special miltary operation sir :rolleyes:
Member
Posts: 66,666
Joined: May 17 2005
Gold: 17,384.69
Nov 6 2023 11:52am
Quote (Meanwhile @ 6 Nov 2023 15:19)
Ukraine destroying Russian ships even before these being taken into the fleet.







+ Explosion in Mariupol (supposely an ammunition depot ?)



This post was edited by Meanwhile on Nov 6 2023 11:57am
Member
Posts: 19,885
Joined: Apr 13 2016
Gold: 32,502.50
Warn: 10%
Nov 6 2023 01:37pm
Allegedly Russian corvette gets booped by Scalp missiles while in dock at Kerch, south east Crimea.

Member
Posts: 38,137
Joined: May 28 2006
Gold: 0.00
Nov 6 2023 01:39pm
even the most hardened propagandists beginning to crack

before and after pic

Member
Posts: 19,885
Joined: Apr 13 2016
Gold: 32,502.50
Warn: 10%
Nov 6 2023 01:40pm
Quote (HeLiCaL @ Nov 6 2023 07:39pm)
even the most hardened propagandists beginning to crack

before and after pic

https://i.imgur.com/xqOY16u.jpg


I guess Russia has accomplished its 10 day special military operation then?
Member
Posts: 4,145
Joined: Jun 30 2022
Gold: 4.91
Warn: 20%
Nov 6 2023 02:23pm
This post is a violation of the site rules and appropriate action was taken.

Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Nov 6 2023 03:40pm)
I guess Russia has accomplished its 10 day special military operation then?


Prox1m1ty is just upset they aren't bombing more kids, that is how a proper military fights a war
Go Back To Political & Religious Debate Topic List
Prev1366336643665366636674527Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll