That's the story of almost all Euro countries.

More than half the time those that left the occupied regions went to Russia, you realize that right? The war obviously has an impact but it's really not as pronounced as one may think, that's why I gave the back of the napkin percentages.

For comparison, they lost almost 30million as a result of WW2. 200k, 300k, half a million people dying in this war and just as many leaving the country I doubt is going to have the detrimental effect you think it is.

Clueless.

Russia's demographic impotency is well documented. There's no magic solution from adding population through forced occupation.

As for losses in Ukraine that number will only increase. By the time any ceasefire comes about they could have over 100k dead. Not wounded. Dead.
And probably 3 times that seriously injured.
Combine the nearly 1 million that fled the draft and Putin has only compounded the fertility problem facing Russia in the future.
You can't actually believe adding 5 million Ukrainians that still reside in an active warzone can alleviate decades of demographic decline.

You improve fertility rates by building hospitals, schools and infrastructure; Not by digging trenches and eating HIMARs for breakfast.

I should add its unsurprising coming from the guy that said Russia takes great care not to kill civilians in its missile strikes. In a week where Russia took so much care they struck two of their own advanced fighter jets and murdered 50 civilians in a single strike.
What a dump mentality.

This post was edited by Prox1m1ty on Oct 9 2023 02:25pm

Fertility rates have very little to do with hospital availability, countries in Africa have way higher fertility rates compared to western rich countries. It's not a function of wealth, the irony of calling someone clueless without having even the slightest of knowledge of basics.


Russia's fertility rate is 1.5 which is the same as Europe on the aggregate. If you compare it to specific countries like Spain, Italy, they are actually in a much better shape.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/612074/fertility-rates-in-european-countries/

Yeah new-born babies hate hospitals. They love trenches and mines.

Clueless.

our boy when he realises ukraine is not the current thing anymore

I never said this war was the issue. I said this war was going to exascerbate an already existing issue. The already existing issue comes from exactly what you pointed out. World war 2, and the collapse of the soviet union. Both were events that really shook the population distribution of the country (really all of Eastern Europe) and what we are seeing now are echoes of those events.

If you experience a demographics upheaval it takes several generations for it to level out.

You're right that Euro countries have this issue. Most developed nations have this issue. But most developed nations also supplement with immigration and aren't starting from such a bad point as Russia is.

Has the construction of these things improved fertility rates in the developed world?

No. Where I said fertility rates was a mistake.
I should have said healthy demographic.

Russia has overall an improving healthier demographic as new generation (1980s-1990s) doesn’t consume much alcohol and tobacco and is overall more into sports than their parents. Obesity is not a problem like in the US or some other nations. The replacement rate is improving since the catastrophe in the 1990s due to laissez-faire “anarcho-democracy”, but Russia is not at the required 2.1 ratio yet, skewed towards Muslim regions of Russia. The gap caused by the 1990s is filled by migrants from Central Asia (also Muslim and increasingly more religious) which is a ticking bomb as integration/ assimilation policies are lagging behind eg European standards.

Govt programs over the past decade have been to support fertility rate overall. I don’t think the impact of Ukraine/Russia war is as dramatic as people are trying to make it out to be. There are about 50k total deaths and 200-300k net migrants out, without considering new added regions. The main problem in my opinion is demoralization due to western propaganda being better than domestic, but thats subjective.

IMO Russia needs to come up with about 100m+ people in the next century to properly populate the vastness of Siberia and ensure domestic economy and scale required for sustainable growth (as well as to ensure Chinese influence in the Far East is contained). Climate change is helping Russia as more and more parts of Siberia are becoming hospitable to human life. Military conflicts do not help, however these are not new and contained to “professional army people” for now.

You could also argue that promotion of fertility rate is the reason Russia has conservative “family” values and is not promoting LGBTQBBQ+ rights as these are seen as hurting replacement ratios. The target is to promote 2.1 replacement ratio among the population (particularly Christian, educated urban class) through social policies like infrastructure (kindergartens, schools), financial incentives (maternity capital, subsidies) and etc.

Here is a good article about the demographics : https://www.trtworld.com/magazine/numbers-dont-lie-how-russia-is-battling-a-crippling-demographic-decline-13992684

This post was edited by Malopox on Oct 10 2023 12:13am