So what? People can't decide to disconnect from their CIA-subverted country and declare independence without being tortured and bombed for 8 years ?

Ahem *cough

Ukrainian far right brigades indiscriminately shelled those territories

@bolded:

Declaring "independence" ? under Putinism ? It's like asking for bullet in the butt.

Which is your opinion and not theirs. They have the right to self determination.

Which by the way is a human right under the UN.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-determination

This post was edited by El1te on Oct 5 2023 01:58pm

Let's check on alternatives provided by "western liberal democracies"

Based.

We did the same thing after the civil war. Outright banned politicians that were part of the confederate government from being voted into office. We should have gone further. Treason should be met with death.

They never tried to declare independence, that's the main point: it's all Kremlin's manipulations:
They paid and trained far right groups and it didn't even worked properly so they had to bring their own special forces.

There were demonstrations against the government by the people of Eastern Ukraine who disagreed with the change in government and what it would likely mean for them (oppression of Russian language/culture at best and recreations of the Odessa massacre at worst) I believe what they actually wanted was to become autonomous regions of Ukraine and not to fully separate.

The Ukrainian government (the one installed by the US in a coup) intended to suppress these protests/demonstrations to solidify their rule over the country, since they couldn't organize conflicts like what happened in Odessa in that part of the country and the local population was largely against the change in government, they needed to send in the military to restore order. The military was not equipped or willing to oppress what it saw as fellow Ukrainians demonstrating peacefully so the government sent in the nationalist psychos to get the job done.

If you read accounts of the separatist leaders and fighters it sounds as though the current and former Russian military who were helping organize were just volunteering because they either had connections to the area or just wanted to help. From what they said Moscow basically wanted nothing to do with them initially and it wasn't until well after hostilities had begun that they even started sending military and humanitarian supplies.

Russia claims how nato is ran by nazis. Let's look at the map where all of the russian elites sent their children for school.



All western/nato countries.

Self-determination does not exclusively mean declaration of independence, it also applies to the will of people to join with another state/union. In this case they wanted to join Russia.

You should really know this