d2jsp
Log InRegister
d2jsp Forums > Off-Topic > General Chat > Political & Religious Debate > Russia / Ukraine
Prev1361036113612361336144528Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll
Member
Posts: 19,885
Joined: Apr 13 2016
Gold: 32,502.50
Warn: 10%
Oct 3 2023 10:15am
Quote (El1te @ Oct 3 2023 04:53pm)
You have no argument


I'm uninterested in arguing with someone living in an alternate reality. I doubt Hitchens could even persuade you back from the edge of your own blissful ignorance :rofl:
Member
Posts: 66,666
Joined: May 17 2005
Gold: 17,384.69
Oct 3 2023 10:16am
Quote (DizzyBusiness @ 3 Oct 2023 16:10)
Your posts don't make sense because you can't communicate in English.


Projecting like no tomorrow
Member
Posts: 29,696
Joined: May 25 2007
Gold: 2,075.69
Oct 3 2023 10:22am
Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Oct 3 2023 09:15am)
I'm uninterested in arguing with someone living in an alternate reality. I doubt Hitchens could even persuade you back from the edge of your own blissful ignorance :rofl:


The real reason is because you have no argument, just ad hominem "Russian agent" responses
Member
Posts: 8,575
Joined: Mar 2 2006
Gold: 3,391.00
Oct 3 2023 10:27am
Quote (Goomshill @ 3 Oct 2023 08:50)
https://www.politico.eu/article/fight-against-ussr-nazi-waffen-ss-trooper-yaroslav-hunka-world-war-ii-soviet-union-germany/

Politico leveled up and unlocked a new power: Unabashed holocaust denialism.

"The Friends of Simon Wiesenthal Center registered its outrage, noting that Hunka’s unit’s “crimes against humanity during the Holocaust are well-documented” — a statement that doesn’t seem to have any more substance than the accusation by Russia."


Very controversial piece by Politico. I’m not sure why they published it.

1) author makes references to British and Soviet investigations into Galicia division that “cleared them” which I could not find. No link is provided.

2) he heavily references flawed Deschenes investigation of 1985 which reads like a heavily politicized case designed to discredit Simon Wiesenthal. They literally admit they discarded or did not request evidence available at Yad Vashem or in Eastern Europe. Why make the effort then - it’s where the crime was committed.

3) he neglects to mention Polish investigations into the same division which have presented proof and witnesses of the massacres specifying that these were committed by Ukranians of the 14th with Germans supervising (eg Huta Pienacka).

4) a just thing for Canada would be to double down on Dechenes commission report, reopen it and disclose that Hunka was among the 16 cleared Galicians allowed to reside in 1985 and that his case was processed with due diligence.

These are the first few comments i have on top of my head without reading too much into this thing.

This post was edited by Malopox on Oct 3 2023 10:28am
Member
Posts: 19,885
Joined: Apr 13 2016
Gold: 32,502.50
Warn: 10%
Oct 3 2023 10:44am
Quote (El1te @ Oct 3 2023 05:22pm)
The real reason is because you have no argument, just ad hominem "Russian agent" responses


Russias most successful miltary commander of the Ukraine invasion,

- "The Ministry of Defense is trying to deceive the public and the president and spin the story that there were insane levels of aggression from the Ukrainian side and that they were going to attack us together with the whole NATO bloc,” Prigozhin said on his Telegram channel on June 23. The truth, he said, was that “there was nothing extraordinary happening on the eve of February 24,” the day last year when Russian invaded. Ukraine was not planning any kind of attack against Russia, he added.

Not even all Russians believe what your projecting as the truth.
It's a weird hill for you to choose to die on, but as I said, do you.

Just don't expect me to indulge in your dillusions.

This post was edited by Prox1m1ty on Oct 3 2023 10:45am
Member
Posts: 14,753
Joined: Jun 27 2010
Gold: 100,701.50
Oct 3 2023 10:51am
Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ Oct 3 2023 05:49pm)
I find it funny that I gave a somewhat nuanced view of Musks' motivations. That he fundamentally wants the public to see him as smart and important, but he's fairly easily manipulated, and the bootlickers have to reframe it at every opportunity as "lol you think he's literally a Russian puppet"

Musk gave Ukraine Starlink for public brownie points because he knew it was popular. Then after being contacted by Russia fell for their talking points, and proposed a "middle ground" to seem smart and independent and peace-wanting. Only issue is that "middle ground" cedes virtually everything to Russia, the unambiguous aggressor. This culminated in him threatening to shut it down until the DoD took over payments, and then refusing to expand it into the areas that, again, Russia took from Ukraine.

And this is based on Musks's own words about who convinced him to take the positions and actions he did, because he was open about talking to Putin and only then started saying ridiculous things like "Putin wants peace". To disagree with my stance you have to literally ignore Musks's own account of his reasoning.

But then again both posters criticizing me for this position spent half a decade licking Trump's boots on the grounds that you can't trust his own words. So makes sense they would just carry that gullibility over.


What a steaming pile of garbage.

The simple facts are that Elon helped and is still helping Ukraine tremendously and those corrupt assholes thanked him by publicly announcing that he's enabling the killing of Ukrainian civilians and children.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/sep/08/elon-musk-committed-evil-starlink-order-ukraine

Who let you out of your cage btw

This post was edited by Djunior on Oct 3 2023 10:52am
Member
Posts: 29,696
Joined: May 25 2007
Gold: 2,075.69
Oct 3 2023 10:52am
Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Oct 3 2023 09:44am)
Russias most successful miltary commander of the Ukraine invasion,

- "The Ministry of Defense is trying to deceive the public and the president and spin the story that there were insane levels of aggression from the Ukrainian side and that they were going to attack us together with the whole NATO bloc,” Prigozhin said on his Telegram channel on June 23. The truth, he said, was that “there was nothing extraordinary happening on the eve of February 24,” the day last year when Russian invaded. Ukraine was not planning any kind of attack against Russia, he added.

Not even all Russians believe what your projecting as the truth.
It's a weird hill for you to choose to die on, but as I said, do you.

Just don't expect me to indulge in your dillusions.


I'm not saying that NATO was preparing to invade Russia (I do not believe they were)

I'm saying that the state of Ukraine aggressively terrorized the LPR and DPR peoples for 8 years since they willfully seceded from the state of Ukraine in 2014. Instead of leaving them be and recognizing their right to self determination, Ukraine decided to bomb them and terrorize them with enthusiastic support from actual card-carrying Nazi units (Azov and others)

In response, Russia moved in to protect them and expel the Ukrainian aggressors. Their casus belli is entirely legitimate

This post was edited by El1te on Oct 3 2023 10:58am
Member
Posts: 19,885
Joined: Apr 13 2016
Gold: 32,502.50
Warn: 10%
Oct 3 2023 11:16am
Quote (El1te @ Oct 3 2023 05:52pm)
I'm not saying that NATO was preparing to invade Russia (I do not believe they were)

I'm saying that the state of Ukraine aggressively terrorized the LPR and DPR peoples for 8 years since they willfully seceded from the state of Ukraine in 2014. Instead of leaving them be and recognizing their right to self determination, Ukraine decided to bomb them and terrorize them with enthusiastic support from actual card-carrying Nazi units (Azov and others)

In response, Russia moved in to protect them and expel the Ukrainian aggressors. Their casus belli is entirely legitimate


So why did it take Russia 8 years to come ti the rescue of ethnic Russians?
If Russia goal was to protect them, why wait 8 years?
What was Russias legitimate casus belli to annex Crimea?

Russias most successful commander completely debunked the narrative your pushing.
And yet here you are.


This post was edited by Prox1m1ty on Oct 3 2023 11:19am
Member
Posts: 19,885
Joined: Apr 13 2016
Gold: 32,502.50
Warn: 10%
Oct 3 2023 11:21am
Quote (Malopox @ Oct 3 2023 05:27pm)
Very controversial piece by Politico. I’m not sure why they published it.

1) author makes references to British and Soviet investigations into Galicia division that “cleared them” which I could not find. No link is provided.

2) he heavily references flawed Deschenes investigation of 1985 which reads like a heavily politicized case designed to discredit Simon Wiesenthal. They literally admit they discarded or did not request evidence available at Yad Vashem or in Eastern Europe. Why make the effort then - it’s where the crime was committed.

3) he neglects to mention Polish investigations into the same division which have presented proof and witnesses of the massacres specifying that these were committed by Ukranians of the 14th with Germans supervising (eg Huta Pienacka).

4) a just thing for Canada would be to double down on Dechenes commission report, reopen it and disclose that Hunka was among the 16 cleared Galicians allowed to reside in 1985 and that his case was processed with due diligence.

These are the first few comments i have on top of my head without reading too much into this thing.


Really flogging a Ukrainian that was in the SS without any evidence he was responsible for war crimes, but completely unphased by the Molotov Ribbentrop pact that enabled the final solution in the first place?

Heavy bias.

This post was edited by Prox1m1ty on Oct 3 2023 11:22am
Member
Posts: 4,145
Joined: Jun 30 2022
Gold: 4.91
Warn: 20%
Oct 3 2023 11:24am
Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Oct 3 2023 02:21pm)
Really flogging a Ukrainian that was in the SS without any evidence he was responsible for war crimes, but completely unphased by the Molotov Ribbentrop pact that enabled the final solution in the first place?

Heavy bias.


Poor man, all he did was join the SS and all these people are being mean to him online. What has the world come to :cry:
Go Back To Political & Religious Debate Topic List
Prev1361036113612361336144528Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll