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Oct 2 2023 02:44pm
Quote (ferdia @ 2 Oct 2023 22:31)
its not a deflection if its true.


read yourself again.
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Oct 2 2023 02:48pm
Quote (Meanwhile @ Oct 2 2023 09:44pm)
read yourself again.


sure, my previous response was:

Quote (ferdia @ Oct 2 2023 08:09pm)
lol. oh man.


that has no bearing on your post. if you want to refute, refute. deflecting without meaning is not worth any ones time.

He has blood on his hands for not enable people to kill other people. that is such unsound logic.
Thats like saying europe has blood on its hands for not nuking russia.

This post was edited by ferdia on Oct 2 2023 02:55pm
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Oct 2 2023 02:50pm
Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ 2 Oct 2023 22:41)
Noticing you cut out his tweet from my response. Hmmmm. Are you busy at work and quoting like an hour before you type your response?

The tweet is Musk regurgitating typical, naive talking points from the Western "why can't we live in peace with Russia"-faction more so than him actually proposing the Russian position. For instance, Russia would never actually agree to "Redo elections of annexed regions under UN supervision. Russia leaves if that is will of the people."

Quote
Also your comparison isn't very good. Putin made the same threat if we sent weapons to Ukraine. We didn't stop doing so. So.... no. We didn't fall prey to Russian "lobbying" on that threat.

We initially totally did fall prey to this empty threat. Yet in spite of this experience, the generals and defense politicians across NATO countries by and large don't push for direct NATO involvement in the war, so they seemingly still consider the threat of nuclear escalation to have credibility in that case.

Which also makes sense: Russia is using arms from other countries like China or Iran, so on which grounds should Ukraine doing something similar be a justification for starting WW3? On the other hand, NATO directly bombing Russian troops on territory Russia considers its own, with Russian-speaking and majority pro-Russian civilians, would come much closer to being a sufficiently strong casus belli, don't you think?
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Oct 2 2023 02:55pm
Quote (ferdia @ 2 Oct 2023 22:48)
sure, my previous response was:
that has no bearing on your post. if you want to refute, refute. deflecting without meaning is not worth any ones time.
He has blood on his hands for not enable people to kill other people. that is such unsound logic.


I'm not here to refute deflections: Russia continue its genocidal behavior by trying to cut heating in a country where temperatures are dropping below 0°C
Get a fucking clue lol
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Oct 2 2023 02:56pm
Quote (Meanwhile @ Oct 2 2023 09:55pm)
I'm not here to refute deflections: Russia continue its genocidal behavior by trying to cut heating in a country where temperatures are dropping below 0°C
Get a fucking clue lol


we are talking about elon musk. you are suggesting he is in cahoots with russia there there is no evidence to support this whatsoever.
you are deflecting away from the current conversation. again.

This post was edited by ferdia on Oct 2 2023 02:57pm
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Oct 2 2023 03:00pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Oct 2 2023 03:50pm)
The tweet is Musk regurgitating typical, naive talking points from the Western "why can't we live in peace with Russia"-faction more so than him actually proposing the Russian position. For instance, Russia would never actually agree to "Redo elections of annexed regions under UN supervision. Russia leaves if that is will of the people."

We initially totally did fall prey to this empty threat. Yet in spite of this experience, the generals and defense politicians across NATO countries by and large don't push for direct NATO involvement in the war, so they seemingly still consider the threat of nuclear escalation to have credibility in that case.

Which also makes sense: Russia is using arms from other countries like China or Iran, so on which grounds should Ukraine doing something similar be a justification for starting WW3? On the other hand, NATO directly bombing Russian troops on territory Russia considers its own, with Russian-speaking and majority pro-Russian civilians, would come much closer to being a sufficiently strong casus belli, don't you think?


Nobody is talking about NATO doing anything directly except sending weapons and resources. Donbas, Crimea, and Luhansk absolutely would not give better justification if Ukraine is taking them, and Russia's nuclear retaliation in response to Ukraine attacking these areas would result in immediate and swift action from all of their allied nations. Russia has given several "nuclear lines" during this conflict already, and we've stepped over them by providing aid, and Ukraine has stepped over them by retaking and shelling captured territory.

Musks' line was just "give Russia what they want". And yeah, there's a lot of westerners also saying that kind of thing, but that's mostly in response to the absolute rampant propaganda Russia has been putting into the western sphere. Really just a continuation of their ongoing propaganda campaigns. And... Elon met with Putin right before putting that tweet out. Has said things during speaking events like "we should be negotiating with Putin. He wants peace". on a similar timescale.


Musk isn't like, a Russian controlled puppet, but by literally Musks's own admission, his reactions have been in response to his conversation with Putin and Russian officials.
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Oct 2 2023 03:05pm
Quote (ferdia @ 2 Oct 2023 22:56)
we are talking about elon musk. you are suggesting he is in cahoots with russia there there is no evidence to support this whatsoever.
you are deflecting away from the current conversation. again.


I was answering to Djunior who himself answered to my post about Russia's genocidal behavior regarding cutting heating in winter.
You are not involved in this discussion, stop disturbing people thanks.

/nb:
https://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=92094408&f=119&p=651585511
don't forget to take your ... vitamins...

This post was edited by Meanwhile on Oct 2 2023 03:08pm
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Oct 2 2023 03:18pm
Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ Oct 2 2023 06:00pm)
Nobody is talking about NATO doing anything directly except sending weapons and resources. Donbas, Crimea, and Luhansk absolutely would not give better justification if Ukraine is taking them, and Russia's nuclear retaliation in response to Ukraine attacking these areas would result in immediate and swift action from all of their allied nations. Russia has given several "nuclear lines" during this conflict already, and we've stepped over them by providing aid, and Ukraine has stepped over them by retaking and shelling captured territory.

Musks' line was just "give Russia what they want". And yeah, there's a lot of westerners also saying that kind of thing, but that's mostly in response to the absolute rampant propaganda Russia has been putting into the western sphere. Really just a continuation of their ongoing propaganda campaigns. And... Elon met with Putin right before putting that tweet out. Has said things during speaking events like "we should be negotiating with Putin. He wants peace". on a similar timescale.


Musk isn't like, a Russian controlled puppet, but by literally Musks's own admission, his reactions have been in response to his conversation with Putin and Russian officials.


Man you've been getting owned for like 10+ pages, maybe have a nap or something.
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Oct 2 2023 03:23pm
Quote (DizzyBusiness @ 2 Oct 2023 23:18)
Man you've been getting owned for like 10+ pages, maybe have a nap or something.


Oh, this is exactly what I was about to say to you.
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Oct 2 2023 03:37pm
Quote (DizzyBusiness @ 3 Oct 2023 00:18)
Man you've been getting owned for like 10+ pages, maybe have a nap or something.


You present yourself as a reasonable Westerner(?) who's a proponent of understanding both sides of the conflict without being fanatical about either... which is fine per se, but you arent giving Thor credit where it's due for constructing good replies, effectively ranking the Western point of view as less worthy of understanding than the Russian one. Are you really being neutral? Im really interested in your political views and motivations. Help me understand you? Where would you place yourself politically? Radically centrist?

This post was edited by Neptunus on Oct 2 2023 03:44pm
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