This guy needs to be jailed for taking so many selfies

Yanukovych haircut is - unholy -

Russia has always acted reciprocally, its been one of their defining traits in geopolitics to the point its a trope and can be used strategically against them because they're so damn predictable about it.
Why did Russia interfere in the 2016 elections? Because America interfered in Putin's previous elections. Why does Russia detain some foreign national? Because that nation just detained a Russian. Why does Russia expel a country's diplomats? Because that country just expelled Russian diplomats
etc etc



And what do you think the US state department was doing funding "pro democracy groups" in Russia?
This trope goes all the way back to the USSR days



He was the lawfully elected president. His overthrow was a violent coup d'etat. Full stop.
You don't get to justify throwing out an election and taking power by force by saying "but it was close". That's not how democracy works. You have agreed upon methods of governance and everyone participates under those rules, and if one party decides to throw out the rules and beat the others to death to take power, then its no longer a democracy. Over half the electorate got disenfranchised by a minority group seizing power. Would you be legitimizing arguments by crazed Trump supporters on January 6th saying "Well if Trump lost by less than a 3% margin its okay for us to take control of the government"? Even they at least pretended to have a claim to the will of the majority, even if they obviously didn't.



I believe in what we already have proof of, already laid out in front of us. When the CIA puts its own top brass on the board of Burisma and the state department top officials are caught on tape discussing which officials to install in various Ukrainian posts after the revolution, there is no pretense left. Its not like the color revolution strategy every left much doubt about who was really the power behind these uprisings, but we're being treated to a daily puppet show as Zelensky tours D.C. for his 4th time and meets his masters.

If you think a full-scale invasion of the entire country from 3 different directions, targeted missile attacks on civilian infrastructure within the first month of the war (and long before any potential peace deals were ripped apart by the nefarious West!) as well as numerous massacres in the occupied regions is "reluctant warfare", then what would it take for you to consider it "determined warfare"? Nuking Kyiv right out of the gate?

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Sep 18 2023 08:06pm

If these allegations are true - it is good that he is dead then.

funny, just hours ago you claimed with certainty it was "fake news", "propaganda", and should be retracted by western media, lol:

https://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=92094408&f=119&p=650971269

You need to discern from “allegations” and “according to MSM outlets” against solid facts and proof. As mentioned I’m personally not convinced based on those two photos I posted that it’s the same guy. I’ve outlined my logic. Perhaps there is some other proof I haven’t seen except hearsay.

A picture of his burned out body with tattoos would be pretty good proof.

He is gone now. Will Ukranians get rid of their Nazis as well?

This post was edited by Malopox on Sep 18 2023 11:05pm

you think pootin murdered utkin because he was a nazi, or because he happened to be on a plane with prigozhin and the leader of a mercenary group that defied him publicly?
you think utkin being dead means russia "got rid of their nazis"? the mental gymnastics required to make such claims... hilarious.

the russian army and society is full of them. white supremacy / nazi ideology is incredibly popular and supported by pootin's russia:

https://cers.leeds.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/97/2016/04/NeoNazism-and-Racist-Violence-in-Russia-Harriet-Neely.pdf
https://www.latrobe.edu.au/news/articles/2022/opinion/russias-long-history-of-neo-nazis
https://www.support4partnership.org/en/news/right-wing-groups-in-europe-linked-to-russia
https://www.jstor.org/stable/43555253
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/putin-nazi-pretext-russia-war-ukraine-belied-white-supremacy-ties-rcna23043

you need to learn not to jump to conclusions based on wishful thinking. there are several sources that confirmed utkin to be a neo-nazi, and it very much looks like he didn't put too much effort into hiding that fact.

initially you claimed that's "fake news" which needs to be retracted, now you already backpedaled to "we just don't have solid proof" - what will it be in a few hours? will you finally arrive in the real world and admit that everything we know about him indicates he was indeed a neo-nazi, or will you remain willfully ignorant while trying to change the topic and make it a silly little bothsidesism?

Allegation



If the above allegation is true, probably second.




… but they continuously clean them out.


I beg to disagree. Russia is no more racist than any other country. Yes, they are people that are racist, but this is not institutionalized. After all Russia was an empire and has empirial heritage meaning a mix of nations. It’s very difficult to be racist when you are constantly mixed and surrounded by Ukranians, Buryat, Kazakhs, Finns and what not. Majority of Russians come from mixed backgrounds, with eg a grandma from Ukraine and a grandpa from the Russian Far East. This makes the absurdity of what is happening all the more tragic.



This is not about Utkin. What’s your point here? That Russia has far right elements? Yes they do, I never denied it. Question you should ask is if anything is being done about it.

Another note is that you need to make a distinction between Conservatism which can come across as far-right due to eg promotion of intolerance of deviations and Nazism ideology (physical extermination of people, purity of race etc).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservatism_in_Russia



Please quote these sources. I’m honestly asking this with an open mind and willing to change my opinion.



Good that you post this picture. From my understanding these are from decade ago and there was a massive crackdown on national far right movement (нацболы) with majority of these guys either fleeing the country (eg Freedom Russia guys in fighting for Ukraine now) or got jail sentences (eg Tesak). I personally know a guy in Tesaks crew and prison has changed him profoundly.



I’ve seen this guy before here multiple times. Is he the only one? It’s unclear if it’s the same guy as in the passport, but for the sake of this argument I agree with you he can be Russian.



Terrible guy. I’m despise people willing to deface their bodies with Nazi symbols. If you check comments on his mma fights- majority of people despise him as well.

https://www.sports.ru/boxing/1094331883-boecz-mma-turkanov-poyavilsya-s-tatu-svastiki-na-turnire-amc-fight-nig.html

The question you should be answering is that are these far right elements run the show in the country publicly? Is the country proud of them as “national heroes to be revered”. Zelenskyy seems to have no problem giving them command of his army. Our Ukranian poster here glances over the genocide of poles, jews, russians, and ukranians that were trying to protect the former, committed by his National Heroes and their forces. They have changed sides and fought against Nazis once Nazis turned on them. Does it absolve them of the terrible acts committed? This, in my opinion, speaks for itself louder than some tattoo on a wierd guy somewhere on the internet.

It’s like saying - Hitler did a lot of great things for Germany like the autobahn system, car companies like Volkswagen, promoted great clothing designers like Hugo Boss which should somehow absolve him from that other thing that he also did. JFC.

The story of Billy the Goat Fucker lives on.

This post was edited by Malopox on Sep 19 2023 02:46am