1. over 7ng/mL doses have been associated with overdoses
2. 11ng/mL is enough to get a whole school bus fucked up
3. no where in the tox report does it say this was Floyd's cause of death, anywhere. that's your assumption.

Floyd was a large man, and likely a constant Fent user, perhaps a heroin junkie or a pill/coke user who climbed up the ladder.

Floyd was undoubtedly in an overdose scenario, given his lethargy, erratic behavior (either from the overdose itself or panic because he was hoping he could have puked up the load before it was digested), and issues breathing and likely heart palpitations.

None of this however means Floyd would have died without being restrained, without the paramedics help earlier, or without being allowed to return to the recovery position as MPD trains officers to do after applying the maximal hold technique. also the maximal hold technique is supposed to be done sideways, so as to allow the perp to breath freely and not roll over, as they have a leg raised.

Whether paramedics were dispatched early enough given the observations of Floyd by Chauvin is relevant. Whether he was told that Floyd should be transitioned to the resting position and declined is relevant. Whether he impeded paramedics once on the scene is relevant. and above all, the fact that he believed and observed a potential drug overdose is relevant to his subsequent actions, not an excuse for them.

George being an erratic fucked up tall powerful black man is relevant for why he was arrested, him smashing his head into plexiglass is relevant for why he was removed from the cruiser, him being clearly fucked up and restrained for 5+ minutes without transitioning him into the recovery position was against protocol, training, and basic logic. i dont believe this crosses the line of a depraved mind, although disregard for human life is somewhat arguable legally. i find this to be gross negligence for Chauvin and him guilty of 3rd degree murder. this case is an overcharge and chauvin will likely walk, despite the circus of witnesses the prosecution has raised.

As i said to bogie tho, if u shoot a dying man who's bleeding out you're guilty of murder, even if u just beat his death by 5 minutes. this may or may not be the case with Floyd. had paramedics been called immediately, allowed to pump floyd's stomach, and floyd placed in the recovery position for 7+ minutes that the maximal restraint technique was used he may have lived to be charged with possession and forgery of bills. the latter a federal felony i believe.





This post was edited by thesnipa on Apr 1 2021 07:59am

You're providing a justification for your position, not factual information regarding how he died.

The coroner's report, which you specifically linked, was absolutely clear that neither asphyxiation or lung compression was the cause of death, or could in any way be construed as the cause of death.

How is the officer in question responsible for the death if the "knee on the neck" or "pressure on the back" narratives are false, according to the science?

Simple question. Should be a simple answer.

when in duress the recovery position is used to ease breathing issues and recovery from cardiac issues. it's a more safe way to hold someone that is fucked up than when they're face down, especially with 3 men holding them down.

the lack of weight to crush his wind pipe or damage his lungs doesnt change this. positionally he was held in an unsafe orientation for about 6 minutes too long.

the recovery position isnt used for fault, its for liability. for cases specifically like this. although typically if someone is violent, and is restrained, its designed to reduce risk of a heart attack as they calm down. whereas face down with pressure on your back is a far higher risk of a heart attacks as pulse remains elevated longer and by the same standard breathing is elevated for longer.

we've likely all seen this irl, someone gets too worked up and has a hard time calming down until they're seated and focused specifically on their breathing and relaxing. Floyd's size, erratic nature, and apparent drug overdose symptoms made him a prime candidate for this, instead he was held in a position that elevated his risk of death and may have cost his life that paramedics could have saved.

again, gross negligence. and/or MPD needs better training on overdoses specifically.

This post was edited by thesnipa on Apr 1 2021 08:07am

That is from the same office. Same case number. They're effectively linked together. That report does not specifically state that "Fentanyl at 11nL was the direct and definitive cause of death". While 7nL is considered a baseline lethal dose, that dose is not lethal to every human being on the planet. There's a thing called tolerance, and sustained use of a substance over time can allow the body to tolerate a dose higher than what might otherwise be lethal to a person who doesn't have sustained use of the same.

You're effectively seeing the "11nL" line and doing this:

Failure of a simple answer is a failure on your part, not mine. I shall remind you, "Innocent until proven guilty." The onus is on the accuser to prove guilt beyond any shadow of a doubt.

If your argument is that Floyd succumbed to his self-drug-induced-state, then that's not on the officers who were tasked with protecting the public from him, that's on him.

Convince me. Pretend I'm a juror. Give me some facts that dispute the coroner's report you yourself posted. Explain to me how the fault for Floyd's death lies at the feet of any person but Floyd.

I feel like I'm obligated to pop in just to provide this link to your guy's discussion;

https://www.mncourts.gov/mncourtsgov/media/High-Profile-Cases/27-CR-20-12949-TT/Exhibit112112020.pdf

That is even more detailed into rationale and analysis than either the press statement or autopsy, the latter of which just stated the facts

Sorry you've lost empathy, it's been a fucked year.

This post was edited by RedFromWinter on Apr 1 2021 08:13am

I had not seen this document before. Thank you sir. More information is always better.



I've not lost empathy. Merely empathy for this particular case. 30+ murdered over this case. I want this to be a footnote in history, not a current event, specifically BECAUSE I have more empathy for the living than the dead.

This post was edited by InsaneBobb on Apr 1 2021 08:15am

uh oh, caught not reading. i answered entirely, if u disagree ok, but i left no part unanswered.

i said its not fault of Chauvin, but liability. and that he's not guilty of murder, but manslaughter by gross negligence.

once restrained the public safety lessons considerably, and floyd's safety raises considerably. this is a basic fact of police work, oops u missed that i guess.

u said drugs killed him, i posted a report, it doesnt say that. u were wrong. u countered with "where does it say neck/lungs killed him see it doesnt SEE". i made no claim floyds neck or lungs were the cause of his death, bad form peter. u goofed up. oops.

i have u facts from MPD's own training program stating what should have been done, and wasnt, even after chauvin was told by recently trained officers.



frig off back to S&G scrub

hi goom