I didn't see any European language on that paper. As far as I know all European countries use latin letters.
It's probably fake.

This post was edited by babun1024 on Sep 5 2023 02:53pm

I honestly dont find this credible.

Source?

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/ukraine-has-lost-its-first-challenger-2-tank-in-combat maybe?

Cool thank you.

Seems to all come from this guy



The explanation is reasonable but an anonymous western def source makes it a little suspicious IMO, there is definitely an incentive to lie about this, that said it doesn't really matter if Russia destroyed one challenger or not, was bound to happen at some point once they started being used.

You're right it doesn't really matter. The bigger point to make is there are no wonder weapons in this war. There's no single piece of hardware short of nukes that would somehow tip the power balance. For almost a year we've heard "wait until this gets to Ukraine" or "It doesn't matter if Russia fires on Ukraine 7 to 1, western weapons are way better and more advance" which is just nonsense and grade A cope.

Ukraine even with hundreds of billions flowing to them from a collective of twenty countries, simply can't match the Russians when it comes to hardware. It's just a size and volume fact. That's why choosing war was so fucked from the beginning. We're probably going to end up at the same outcome, except one where at least half a million people died, many other maimed, and a country fully reliant on outside support, most likely for many years.

This post was edited by ofthevoid on Sep 5 2023 05:16pm

It might be turned into a Rump State in the end.

This scenario reminds me of the Biblical story of when Solomon faced the two women and the baby. It's just difficult for me to understand how Ukrainian leadership actually has the best interests of it's people in this scenario. It's not to say the contrast is true, that somehow Russia does, because that's also not true. For Ukraine, you are willingly sending tens of thousands of your own people fully knowing they will get slaughtered, many of them against their will. And for what? For lines on a map? Out of pride? Even if they fully retake the Donbass you think many of the people that lost sons or fathers that died there between 2014-present fighting for DNR/LNR are somehow going to benevolently accept your rule?


If I am the average Taiwanese person or even politician and I'm looking at this current scenario I'm going to think long and hard about sacrificing hundreds of thousands, maybe more to end up in the same outcome (assuming some military intervention plays out).

This post was edited by ofthevoid on Sep 5 2023 05:30pm

The Ukrainian leadership since 2014 have already been compromised. They are not doing it for their people. Their citizens and army is merely a vanguard for an ideology that needs to be spread worldwide and made into an image of, in order to create a possible long lasting peace.
Such ideologues needs sacrifice , and they are the sacrificial lamb in the West.

Thats all.

Yeah people seem to treat it a bit like a videogame "our teams tank has +1 armor and range so we will win!" Even if they are technically superior that counts for little IMO.

Norlander sent me an article where some of the Ukrainian troops involved in liberating robotyne were talking about what it took to accomplish and it sounds pretty horrific, no lack of courage that's for sure.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ukraine-counteroffensive-i-m-ready-to-die-90-of-the-guys-here-will-die-too-76jvs3kwj

Quote at the of the article is quite good and worth considering for some of our regular posters here



This post was edited by DizzyBusiness on Sep 5 2023 06:07pm