Quote (ferdia @ 4 Sep 2023 20:07)

Some of the takeaways :

The debate was: Should the West Acknowledge Russia's security Concerns. There were two teams "For" and "Against".
There was a poll before the debate, and a poll after the debate, asking the audience for their view. Prior to the Debate the audience was slightly in favor, and after the debate the audience was 6x% not in favor. i.e. the "against" team won the debate.

The key highlights for me were:

(a) As things naturally escalate (more and more) we will move closer and closer to a wider war. This point was wisely not responded to.
(b) Calling the other side names, interrupting and being passionate about your views, does not mean you are right and they are wrong.
(c) The fact that Michael McFaul (on the team of "Against) said that Russia has serious security concerns but that the audience, after the debate were more in his camp, suggests to me that they were not listening properly, as this was a comment that should have sunk his position. This reinforces the fact to my mind that people were not given enough time to digest what he said.
(d) The point re: John F Kennedy v Joe Biden was far too late in the debate for its impact to be properly considered. The "For" should have used this (i) as their opening salvo and (ii) There was also no mention of the work carried out by the US in Ukraine and Georgia over the last two decades.

overall i agree that the "Against" team won the debate noting the "For" team did not clearly, and comprehensively champion their argument.

thanks for linking it was quite entertaining.

Ultimately I feel that the Anti-Russian team ( the key being this was a intellectual debate) won because they comprehensively reinforced the mainstream narrative, correctly highlighting the unreasonable aspect of war, while the "pro

Quote (Hamsterbaby @ Sep 4 2023 01:13pm)

Same sentiments. This is what democracy is all about, and things changes and opinion changes as time goes by due to a myriad of factors that will affect public opinion and polls.

Quote (JohnnyMcCoy @ Sep 4 2023 02:44pm)

https://abload.de/img/20230904_1433127hcjn.jpg

desperation ^_^

will be interesting to see if the germany will do that too, there was an article recently saying that around 160k fighting age ukranian males are in germany

will the exact the same people, who were anti military, anti defense budget, anti conscription, anti defense industry, anti everything war related, deport these men to get sent into the meatgrinder?

Quote (JohnnyMcCoy @ Sep 4 2023 08:44am)

https://abload.de/img/20230904_1433127hcjn.jpg

desperation ^_^

will be interesting to see if the germany will do that too, there was an article recently saying that around 160k fighting age ukranian males are in germany

will the exact the same people, who were anti military, anti defense budget, anti conscription, anti defense industry, anti everything war related, deport these men to get sent into the meatgrinder?

Quote (JohnnyMcCoy @ Sep 4 2023 02:44pm)

https://abload.de/img/20230904_1433127hcjn.jpg

desperation ^_^

will be interesting to see if the germany will do that too, there was an article recently saying that around 160k fighting age ukranian males are in germany

will the exact the same people, who were anti military, anti defense budget, anti conscription, anti defense industry, anti everything war related, deport these men to get sent into the meatgrinder?

Quote (ferdia @ 4 Sep 2023 20:14)

I wonder if any of the moderates would consider us doing a debate like this (we can do it on discord and grab some neutrals as an audience) ??

Quote (Hamsterbaby @ Sep 4 2023 04:29pm)

Impossible.
Apart from Black Xisten throughout the 3k Pages I haven't read or seen someone who is "Pro West" have produced a good decent counter Argument.
Even when they did, which at times we all agree with them, they will somehow end up with them mudslinging first and those of us who have patience, lose patience in the end and we sling back obviously.

You will probably want the PowerPuff Girls to be involved, but they will lose and get slaughtered like pigs.
If anyone who is " Pro Western" is willing to work backwards admitting that the expansion is on purpose and argue on the point that Liberalism in mostly white dominated societies will improve the lives of people, Historical Imperialism of Russia, Leninism etc etc .
There will be a good and more than enough source for a debate because it is factual.

But no one from the Pro West Group will admit the expansion of Nato is on purpose. They also need to take into account of Russia's Nuclear program and also need to argue for America's security and influence in the EU region being threaten.
Because these are factual truths that can breakdown those that supposedly " Support Russia " .
But they are not willing to do that because it will make them sound like Imperialistic Simps. Their "moral high ground " will kill off their counters.

Quote (ferdia @ 4 Sep 2023 23:33)

I could easily do the pro-west side.
and no we dont need the powerpuff girls, i said moderates, not lunatics.