It's a great movie!



The Irishman was the best

You managed to watch the Munk debate? It was rather passionate at times especially from, Michael McFaul and Radosław Sikorski

I mean these are debates that I can fully support on. There is a Pre Debate Vote and Post Debate Vote at the end where Post Debate Michael McFaul and Radosław Sikorski won.
These are great .

This was a year ago. Look at the youtube comments a year back and look at the newest comments. It is quite interesting.

This post was edited by Hamsterbaby on Sep 3 2023 03:46pm

I watched half of it, bed now. you said a very good comment - "It was rather passionate at times especially from, Michael McFaul and Radosław Sikorski". I found that the other side was not as passionate and they just rehashed the same old argument, no mention of US involvement in Ukraine (or Georgia) no mention of Nato war games, no mention of atrocities committed by Ukraine just before the war, no mention of Nulands now famous phone call, no mention of Cuban Missile Crisis. by the 1/2 way point I had Michael McFaul and Radosław Sikorski ahead in the debate. will watch the 2nd half tomorrow.

Nite bro, watch the second half tomorrow. McFaul and Sikorski won the passion vote to be honest. Hard Truths are difficult to accept and realist theory are usually shelved when the mass are being blinded by compassion.
When the dust settles and people realize the the situation , it is already too late.

I am confident that 7 out 10 chances , Ukraine will be turned into a rump state sooner or later.

This post was edited by Hamsterbaby on Sep 3 2023 04:02pm

Did you even look at the picture lmao

The zoomed in view doesn't even match...

A little off topic.

Read this before it is taken off the internet or made to be difficult to find.

https://digitalarchive.wilsoncenter.org/document/memorandum-conversation-between-mao-zedong-zhou-enlai-and-henry-kissinger

Controversial figure --> his name linked to corruption scandals just like all Ukrainian officials and yes he's being replaced.

TLDR ?

Some of the takeaways :

The debate was: "Should the West Acknowledge Russia's security Concerns". There were two teams "For" and "Against".
There was a poll before the debate, and a poll after the debate, asking the audience for their view. Prior to the Debate the audience was slightly in favor, and after the debate the audience was 6x% not in favor. i.e. the "against" team won the debate.

The key highlights for me were:

(a) As things naturally escalate (more and more) we will move closer and closer to a wider war. This point was wisely not responded to by the "against" team.
(b) Calling the other side names, interrupting and being passionate about your views, does not mean you are right and they are wrong.
(c) The fact that Michael McFaul (on the team of "Against) said that Russia has serious security concerns but that the audience, after the debate were more in his camp, suggests to me that they were not listening properly, as this was a comment that should have sunk his position. This reinforces the fact to my mind that people were not given enough time to digest what he said.
(d) The point re: John F Kennedy v Joe Biden was far too late in the debate for its impact to be properly considered. The "For" should have used this (i) as their opening salvo and (ii) There was also no mention of the work carried out by the US in Ukraine and Georgia over the last two decades.

overall i agree that the "Against" team won the debate noting the "For" team did not clearly, and comprehensively champion their argument.

thanks for linking it was quite entertaining.

Ultimately I feel that the Anti-Russian team ( the key being this was a intellectual debate) won because they comprehensively reinforced the mainstream narrative, correctly highlighting the unreasonable aspect of war, while the "For" team were bad public speakers, and did not properly present their argument. If the purpose of a debate is to win then you have to use all the weapons available, such as Coups, NS2, Cuba, US threats on sovereign nations abroad etc.

I wonder if any of the moderates would consider us doing a debate like this (we can do it on discord and grab some neutrals as an audience) ??

This post was edited by ferdia on Sep 4 2023 06:14am