Better hope the F-16s don't F up in Ukraine.

" The United States approved the $8 billion sale of Lockheed Martin Corp. F-16 fighter jets to Taiwan in 2019.
Once complete, the deal will take the island's F-16 fleet to more than 200 jets, the most in Asia, according to Reuters. "

This post was edited by Hamsterbaby on Aug 21 2023 04:57am

?

but then they can just send more...

"already"

https://map.ukrdailyupdate.com/?lat=49.768737&lng=37.707481&z=12&c=1

looool

This post was edited by Meanwhile on Aug 21 2023 05:15am

Concerned? yes. pretense for a war? no.

F-16s are 40 year old planes and the S-300 which came out around the same time was specifically designed to take these type of planes down. Since then Russians developed and deployed even more advanced AA systems S-400,500s, so like Hamsterbaby, most experts agree that those planes will be extremely vulnerable at the front. They are an escalation and may have some impact but ultimately very limited. Nor would they really be able to engage Russian aircraft because Russia isn't really using front line Aircraft all that much (because Ukrainians also have S-300s), what they do is launch Kinzhal's and Kalibr's and other type of long range cruise missiles from Caspian Sea or Black Sea which then travel hundreds of miles to their targets.

I don't know how many they get but in the short term (lets say by year end) it's a relatively small amount <10 and even that is fairly optimistic to expect because pilot training takes awhile. In the next two years it could be a lot more but that hinges on continual western support for years to come, which IMO is not a given.

They should have sent them for training 2 months into the war last year. I mean why now ? You are not going to train F -16 pilots in 6 months. Minimal is 8 to 9 months.
Our boys in Singapore who does F - 16 Training takes about 12 months and you have to go on sorties, mock battles etc etc . Now is August, by next June, July the pilots are supposedly " trained " . Delivery ?
Air fields ? You mean Ukraine are going to fly their F - 16S from Romania and Poland ? US Elections ?

So many things is going to happen.

If your F - 16S is not going to perform fairly well, it is going to affect sales. I mean if you are going to send the upgraded F-16 Block 70s, obviously it is going to be totally different.
But those that are sent over is not.

Pragmatic A-10s will be so much more effective. Send more drones for hit and run , rinse and repeat. Use minimal amount of $$$$ for the most effective weapons, drag it out till they are tired.
Do what the Rice Farmers did in Vietnam.

This post was edited by Hamsterbaby on Aug 21 2023 06:33am

Nature of using planes has shifted too. Precisely because AA systems are so effective. Instead of having bombers basically 'drop down', almost everything now is being retrofitted to glide to target. Even old FAB bombs which were just your typical drop bomb has been improvised with glide vehicle. Early on the Russians lost some planes and learned from those tactics.



https://rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/special-resources/meatgrinder-russian-tactics-second-year-its-invasion-ukraine#:~:text=The%20Ukrainian%20military%20notes%20that,munitions%20poses%20a%20serious%20threat.

I guess if Ukraine get's F-16 that are capable of carrying glide missiles/bombs that can be fired from let's say as far as Dnipro or whatever that could impactful and a gamer changer but we'll see how long the US leash is. They would also have to be launched from Ukraine, which the Russians would be targeting.

This post was edited by ofthevoid on Aug 21 2023 07:03am

for sure 2023 is a right off.

I think ultimately this war is weakening Russia as a whole and i'd agree that it lowers their future growth rate but there's a pretty nasty side effect for it's opponents. They are spending more on their war-machine more than ever, they have more brain and industrial power dedicated to that more than before.

We legitimately could end up with a much more advanced military adversary in a few years. Sure losing 100k, 200k, 300k and billions in commodities revenue is a negative but if they modernize their military out of necessity because this war forced them to, our ultimate goal was a huge failure.

Iran2.0, or North Korea 2.0. Weaker economy but absolutely much stronger militaries vs if they were left alone and allowed to focus on social/economic issues.

Similar to China....If You force them, they will think of some crap themselves and make it work.

There you go. Look what they did recently. Sometimes I find it amusing that some people honestly believe that everyone else apart from them are so backwards that they are still living in mud huts and still surviving via hunter gatherer lifestyle.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_Amendment

This post was edited by Hamsterbaby on Aug 21 2023 07:55am