https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2022/04/03/msnbcs_ali_velshi_what_is_the_point_of_these_alliances_if_not_to_stop_this.html

Democratic outlets (I'm not sure what else to call MSNBC) are emphatically saying just that.

While terrible, it's not worse than what is going on in China, and we don't refuse to negotiate with the Chinese.

fenderp.exe stopped working

It's significantly worse than China. What planet are you living on? Also, going to war with Russia to defend Ukraine is significantly different than forcing Russia to choose a new head of state (which is what Skinned was talking about).

I for one am glad that Mitt Romney, the last conservative Republican nominee, was proven right. Frankly, we should demand an apology from Obama but I'm not holding my breath.

I see your point, but doesn't the pathetic showing of the Russian army during this war actually validate Obama's assessment that Russia is no longer a global power and that bullying their smaller neighbors is pretty much the ceiling of their military potential?

China attacked Taiwan when? I feel like it would be louder.

this was quick:
A list of unites and russians soldiers who did war crimes stationed has been released.
https://imgur.com/gallery/cC2kr2C

This post was edited by Saucisson6000 on Apr 4 2022 05:22pm

ampootin.exe still hasn't learned to read but reliably finds fellow pootin whisperer to circle jerk with...

No, because countries will still hesitate to aggravate a nuclear power. In addition, Russia has outsized economic power because certain countries have very weak people. These countries would rather ensure that all buildings are 27 degrees C than to do anything about thousands of civilians murdered.

I think that Russia's cyber warfare capabilities are on par with the US and China. Lastly, Russia's ability to conduct psy-op campaigns is probably the best in the world. They really know how to get countries to focus on their own internal issues as opposed to foreign policy issues.

This is a faulty argument flavored with cheap polemics. Russia's economic leverage is a card they could only play exactly one time. Going "be a shame if 'unfriendly' countries forced us to cut off our gas shipments" - like they just did - is not much different from actually shutting it off when it comes to the long-term outlook. Russia has shown its true colors and proven once and for all that they are not a trustworthy trade partner. Hence, Europe will phase out Russian gas and oil over the coming years, sever these and all other economic ties and then, Russia's economy will be completely fucked. Yes, they have some degree of leverage right now, but it's waning quickly and it's already more or less a certainty that Russia's economy is done for in the intermediate future.

Also, you know full well that the issue is not a pussified population unwilling to turn down the thermostat some degrees, the issue is that our industry and energy suppliers cannot substiute Russian gas immediately. A Russian delivery stop or a European energy embargo would plunge us into a gigantic recession ( 10-15% GDP loss within a year) and permanently (yes, permanently!) cost millions (yes, millions!) of jobs.




Fair point, although I wouldn't underrate China's psy-op capabilities. Over the past 12 or so years, they've done a remarkable job infiltrating Western businesses, entertainment and universities. I also don't think it's a coincidence that a lot of self-defeating policies have become part of the mainstream political discourse in Western societies.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Apr 4 2022 05:49pm

China has a million people detained in reeducation / forced rape / forced sterilization facilities. I don't know, that strikes me as orders of magnitude worse.