Quote (ofthevoid @ Aug 19 2023 05:58pm)
I'm asking to explain your argument and why the scenarios are different. Simply saying they're different doesn't cut it. No one is strawmanning you, i'm asking you to explain your position, while you're dodging. Stop being a coward, it's not a complex question, and i'm sure you have an opinion.
Let me refresh your memory, here is my argument.
Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Aug 18 2023 10:45pm)
Wagner have plenty members that are openly "nazis" check it out yourself. Why do you have such a leaning view of who or who isn't a nazi to Ukraine's detriment?
To me and not only me the intent from Russia is blatant. "the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group."
Examples but not confined to,
Bucha massacre, destruction of the Kakhovka Dam, indiscriminate strikes against civilian infrastructure eg: attacks on agriculture,on grain export infrastructure, energy infrastructures during winter. Even attacks on actual apartment buildings with no significant military importance.
I accept that two of these events could be callously chalked up as military actions. The Russian tactic that convinced me of their intention is the deportation of Ukrainian children.
You don't have to completely eradicate every person in an ethnicity for it to be an effective genocide. Removing young Ukrainians en masse not only denys Ukraine of an already living generation but of future potential generations.
Russia is actively and intentionally damaging Ukraine's demographic and their intentions are clear. Which is where I think yourself and ofthevoid are closed minded in this; You both appear to have the bar set higher than what the actual definition of genocide is, because of historical instances.
While I can see what your saying about diminishing the plight of Jews in WW2 for example, I completely disagree with you.
In my opinion the opposite is true. By claiming that what is happening today could never be as bad as what happened historically then its a spit in the face of people suffering an equally terrible situation today, relative to their own perception.
There isn't some scale of suffering as you appear to be applying; People are suffering in Ukraine what I believe is an attempted genocide. And I have given my reasons for that above, your welcome to disagree.
Take what ISIS did to Yazidi populations in Iraq and Syria. Estimates of those killed go as high as 5000 people. It is widely accepted as a genocide.
Hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians have died. Possibly tens of thousands of civilians alone.
It is simply not appropriate to compare one genocide to another as if its a pissing contest.
On this point you are sorely misguided. What your saying about preserving integrity and gravity of events like the holocaust is not unlike prejudice against one ethnicity or another.
Not even close. Far detached from reality. This is the behavior I and others are talking about. It makes you appear weak.
By definition what Russia is doing is genocide. The fact that so many users here are in denial is the most embarrassing thing.
https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml"A physical element, which includes the following five acts, enumerated exhaustively:
Killing members of the group
Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group
Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part
Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group
Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group"
If you want to debate in good faith, then provide a counter argument on the Ukraine situation. I'm not here to answer a question of "was the Iraq war justified"
What sort of chicanery is that?
Quote (ferdia @ Aug 19 2023 06:02pm)
yes you have to pretend that there were no previous wars and this is the first war that ever existed. the people that pushed for this war are the same people that pushed for the war in iraq, but remember, thats irrelevant because it happened yesterday not today. try to keep up, my god why are you looking at the details!
When one country invades its called freedom
When another country invades its called genocide
this is all so confusing to me!
:rolleyes:
If you want to debate in good faith provide a counter argument, cheerleading is probably you level you've descended to however.
Just read your post yesterday claiming Russia is not doing total war. You've actually gone full shill already, pathetic.