Quote (Saucisson6000 @ Apr 3 2022 06:28pm)

It's an acquired fact, the french journalist of the basic mostly trusted paper was there, and the corpses are still here and will stay here because ukrainians are waiting for international inspectors to see it by themselves...

https://www.francetvinfo.fr/monde/europe/manifestations-en-ukraine/guerre-en-ukraine-des-crimes-de-guerre-ont-ils-ete-commis-a-boutcha_5061055.html

Bucha is at the north west of Kyiv: it's not a contested area, it's not soldiers. It's the place that was massively occupied by russians before, when they were trying to take the main city.

Quote (chopstickz777 @ 4 Apr 2022 00:35)

So basically the Ukrainians go in to the former Russian-held area and murder a bunch of people whom they brand as 'collaborators', and then immediately go around and blame it on Russia, turning it into the latest 'serious incident' to drum up support for a NATO intervention.

For God's sake, how do you people fall for this crap? Do you not realize that Ukraine has everything to gain (an intervention) and nothing to lose by pushing this false narrative, since there is NOBODY to hold them accountable for lying?

Oh yeah, I'm sure the very same regime that murdered 14,000 people in Donbass and who have been caught killing hundreds more in areas under THEIR control wouldn't shoot some more people in Bucha and frame it on Russia!

Quote (chopstickz777 @ Apr 3 2022 07:02pm)

Santara. Please explain it to me, because I am truly having a hard time understanding how you take up the position that you do.

You're in the US military. Therefore, you should know that a million or so people died because of the invasion of Iraq and many tens of thousands more died due to the invasion of Afghanistan. You should know that the original reasons (chemical weapons and OBL) were proven false, that there were no chemical weapons in Iraq and that OBL turned out not to be in Afghanistan.

You should know about how tens of thousands were killed during during Obama's "no fly zone" in Libya. You should know how thousands more were killed during the US airstrikes on ISIS in Syria, which were often indiscriminate.

But now you're up in arms over Ukraine? How is Russia's operation ANY worse than what the US has done multiple times over the past few decades? Do the lives of all the brown people killed by US airstrikes and sanctions just not matter? I mean for God's sake, we've literally got youtube footage of Madeline Albright justifying the mass murder of half a million Iraqi babies by sanctions. "We believe it was worth it."

Please tell me how you do it. How can you withstand the mountain of hypocrisy you're standing on? I truly do not understand how you do it.

Quote (Norlander @ Apr 3 2022 06:32pm)

And you are the "batallion" guy reading only titles. I hope you are not covering your extra chromosome with dementia.

Quote (babun1024 @ Apr 3 2022 07:25pm)

Found the source:
https://www.npu.gov.ua/news/stoprussia/speczpriznachenczi-naczpolicziji-rozpochali-zachistku-mista-bucha/

Apparently, they were conducting a special operation to find Russian collaborateurs on April, 2nd, in Bucha.
Translation:

"Today, April 2nd, in liberated town of Bucha in Kiev region special forces of national police of Ukraine performed clearing of territory from diversionists and collaborators with Russian forces. Demolition service specialists perform search of places of crimes of Russian Forces and extract undetonated explosives and ammunition."

Quote

While Orban had earlier campaigned on divisive social and cultural issues, he dramatically shifted the tone of his campaign after Russia invaded Ukraine on February 24, and has portrayed the election since then as a choice between peace and stability or war and chaos.

While the opposition called for Hungary to support its embattled neighbour and act in lockstep with its EU and NATO partners, Orban, a longtime ally of Putin, has insisted that Hungary remain neutral and maintain its close economic ties with Moscow, including continuing to import Russian gas and oil on favourable terms.

At his final campaign rally on Friday, Orban claimed that supplying Ukraine with weapons – something that Hungary, alone among Ukraine’s EU neighbors, has refused to do – would make the country a military target, and that sanctioning Russian energy imports would cripple Hungary’s own economy.

“This isn’t our war, we have to stay out of it,” Orban said.

The president of Ukraine, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, on Saturday depicted the Hungarian leader as out of touch with the rest of Europe, which has united to condemn Putin, support sanctions against Russia and send aid including weapons to Ukraine.

“He is virtually the only one in Europe to openly support Mr Putin,” Zelenskyy said.

While speaking to supporters on Sunday, Orban singled out Zelenskyy as part of the “overwhelming force” that he said his party had struggled against in the election — “the left at home, the international left all around, the Brussels bureaucrats… the international mainstream media, and in the end, even the Ukrainian president.”

Quote (chopstickz777 @ Apr 4 2022 01:02am)

Santara. Please explain it to me, because I am truly having a hard time understanding how you take up the position that you do.

You're in the US military. Therefore, you should know that a million or so people died because of the invasion of Iraq and many tens of thousands more died due to the invasion of Afghanistan. You should know that the original reasons (chemical weapons and OBL) were proven false, that there were no chemical weapons in Iraq and that OBL turned out not to be in Afghanistan.

You should know about how tens of thousands were killed during during Obama's "no fly zone" in Libya. You should know how thousands more were killed during the US airstrikes on ISIS in Syria, which were often indiscriminate.

But now you're up in arms over Ukraine? How is Russia's operation ANY worse than what the US has done multiple times over the past few decades? Do the lives of all the brown people killed by US airstrikes and sanctions just not matter? I mean for God's sake, we've literally got youtube footage of Madeline Albright justifying the mass murder of half a million Iraqi babies by sanctions. "We believe it was worth it."

Please tell me how you do it. How can you withstand the mountain of hypocrisy you're standing on? I truly do not understand how you do it.

Quote (Goomshill @ Apr 4 2022 04:00am)

It could be Russians slaughtered civilians. It could be Ukrainians slaughtered civilians and blamed Russia. It could be someone cherry picked a few corpses, or even staged the corpses. I don't know. After the White Helmets of Syria, anything is possible.
Granular details like this are hard to pick out of history books after the fact with the dust settled, and impossible to figure out under the fog of war and blinded by rampant propaganda.
I'm more interested by the things we can actually confirm and the motives behind them, like why Russia was encircling Kiev and then stopped, why they're bombing Mariupol but not flattening Lviv as western weapons flood in, etc.