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Mar 28 2016 12:54pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Mar 28 2016 02:52pm)
It just highlights that God may be the standard by which we judge something, but standards can be exceeded, and the God of the Bible (capitalization?) is pretty easy to exceed in his capacity for moral goodness and ability to make plans. I mean, we measure our standard of length using a meter stick but there are plenty of distances longer than a meter.


...you need a nap :wacko:
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Mar 28 2016 12:59pm
Quote (WidowMaKer_MK @ Mar 28 2016 12:54pm)
...you need a nap :wacko:


And you need to sell that Dodge and buy a Chevy. Maybe you'll actually start moving again.
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Mar 28 2016 01:03pm
Another 13 page successful thread. Frodo has a gift from God.
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Mar 28 2016 01:09pm
Quote (IceMage @ Mar 28 2016 01:03pm)
Another 13 page successful thread. Frodo has a gift from God.


Keep any thread on the front page of this forum and it will get posts.
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Mar 28 2016 06:28pm
Quote (Morphmcmanerson @ Mar 28 2016 11:01pm)


That just shows how far God's love and grace reaches. Such a thing would only work if he said that and actually meant it.

Obviously it isn't that easy to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior without the Holy Spirit.

Quote (Unanswered @ Mar 28 2016 11:25pm)
No. I don't see. I'm sorry you're backed into a corner with nothing left. :(


Oh yes you do see it. I'm still going to Heaven when I die. I don't know about you. Who is the real victor here when you look at the big picture?

Quote (sylvannos @ Mar 29 2016 04:25am)
...except God didn't have to put the tree there, especially if he's all-knowing in the first place.

The Abrahamic god creates its own problems, punishes its creation for problems it created, then makes a loophole (Jesus) to solve the problem.

God wouldn't need to create such a convoluted solution if there wasn't a tree in the first place. Even more baffling is why a snake was allowed to roam about doing evil snake shit.

It like giving a gun to a toddler and then getting mad when the kid accidentally hurts someone. The easiest solution would be to not give the toddler a gun lol.

This plot by your god to have people try and be convinced during their lifetime to accept God's grace just shows how incompetent God is.

I think we're done here. At this point you've resorted to preaching to prove the bible is true and infallible because the bible says it's true and infallible. You can't address why an all-loving creator would make circumstances for child rapists to exist without resorting to "Well, the kids deserve it because of what their ancestors did and it's all part of God's plan."

Your values and morals sound fucked.


Oh that's another easy reply. Let's consult Genesis 4
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

4 Adam made love to his wife Eve, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Cain. She said, “With the help of the Lord I have brought forth a man.” 2 Later she gave birth to his brother Abel.

Now Abel kept flocks, and Cain worked the soil. 3 In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the Lord. 4 And Abel also brought an offering—fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. The Lord looked with favor on Abel and his offering, 5 but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor. So Cain was very angry, and his face was downcast.

6 Then the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? 7 If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.”

8 Now Cain said to his brother Abel, “Let’s go out to the field.” While they were in the field, Cain attacked his brother Abel and killed him.

9 Then the Lord said to Cain, “Where is your brother Abel?”

“I don’t know,” he replied. “Am I my brother’s keeper?”

10 The Lord said, “What have you done? Listen! Your brother’s blood cries out to me from the ground. 11 Now you are under a curse and driven from the ground, which opened its mouth to receive your brother’s blood from your hand. 12 When you work the ground, it will no longer yield its crops for you. You will be a restless wanderer on the earth.”

13 Cain said to the Lord, “My punishment is more than I can bear. 14 Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.”

15 But the Lord said to him, “Not so; anyone who kills Cain will suffer vengeance seven times over.” Then the Lord put a mark on Cain so that no one who found him would kill him. 16 So Cain went out from the Lord’s presence and lived in the land of Nod, east of Eden.

17 Cain made love to his wife, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Enoch. Cain was then building a city, and he named it after his son Enoch. 18 To Enoch was born Irad, and Irad was the father of Mehujael, and Mehujael was the father of Methushael, and Methushael was the father of Lamech.

19 Lamech married two women, one named Adah and the other Zillah. 20 Adah gave birth to Jabal; he was the father of those who live in tents and raise livestock. 21 His brother’s name was Jubal; he was the father of all who play stringed instruments and pipes. 22 Zillah also had a son, Tubal-Cain, who forged all kinds of tools out of bronze and iron. Tubal-Cain’s sister was Naamah.

23 Lamech said to his wives,

“Adah and Zillah, listen to me;
wives of Lamech, hear my words.
I have killed a man for wounding me,
a young man for injuring me.
24 If Cain is avenged seven times,
then Lamech seventy-seven times.”
25 Adam made love to his wife again, and she gave birth to a son and named him Seth, saying, “God has granted me another child in place of Abel, since Cain killed him.” 26 Seth also had a son, and he named him Enosh.

At that time people began to call on the name of the Lord.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Another thing God didn't have to do is create the Earth in the first place. I'm thinking you would prefer to not partake in an assignment or project because you know you would fail at it. I reckon that's the attitude you have.
After man ate from the fruit, God could have smote Adam and Eve on the spot but he chose not to.
When Cain killed Abel, God could have killed Cain in anger but he chose to punish him. Yet God also said to Cain that if anyone kills Cain then they will suffer vengeance seven times over.
Even in his punishment he chooses to protect.

You also know that Jesus is the solution to all our sin. Sent by God because he so loved the world.
You also come up with such extreme analogies with a toddler and a gun. I do not see what your point is there is how anybody can relate to it.

Oh and the temptation by the serpent in the Garden, that serpent convinced man that God was holding back and was lying to them. The serpent convinced man that God was tricking us and eating from the fruit of the tree would bring about real joy.
What we find out is that God wasn't lying. The sin that promised joy and life had lead them to the grave.
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Mar 28 2016 06:38pm
Quote (WidowMaKer_MK @ 28 Mar 2016 13:57)
...since we discussing how this applies in a God created universe , without evil there are no elderly , no mentally disadvantaged ; even death does not exist without evil .


Do children exist without evil?
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Mar 28 2016 06:40pm
It is impossible to know if you'll get to heaven upon death. Hell, you don't even know if heaven exists.
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Mar 28 2016 06:50pm
Quote (hATemOnkEy @ Mar 28 2016 08:38pm)
Do children exist without evil?


...Scripture implies that Eve bore children before the fall since one of her consequences was an increase in pain during childbirth .
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Mar 28 2016 06:53pm
Quote (CPK001 @ 29 Mar 2016 00:28)
That just shows how far God's love and grace reaches. Such a thing would only work if he said that and actually meant it.

Obviously it isn't that easy to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior without the Holy Spirit.



Oh yes you do see it. I'm still going to Heaven when I die. I don't know about you. Who is the real victor here when you look at the big picture?



Oh that's another easy reply. Let's consult Genesis 4
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

4 Adam made love to his wife Eve, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Cain. She said, “With the help of the Lord I have brought forth a man.” 2 Later she gave birth to his brother Abel.

Now Abel kept flocks, and Cain worked the soil. 3 In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the Lord. 4 And Abel also brought an offering—fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. The Lord looked with favor on Abel and his offering, 5 but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor. So Cain was very angry, and his face was downcast.

6 Then the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? 7 If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.”

8 Now Cain said to his brother Abel, “Let’s go out to the field.” While they were in the field, Cain attacked his brother Abel and killed him.

9 Then the Lord said to Cain, “Where is your brother Abel?”

“I don’t know,” he replied. “Am I my brother’s keeper?”

10 The Lord said, “What have you done? Listen! Your brother’s blood cries out to me from the ground. 11 Now you are under a curse and driven from the ground, which opened its mouth to receive your brother’s blood from your hand. 12 When you work the ground, it will no longer yield its crops for you. You will be a restless wanderer on the earth.”

13 Cain said to the Lord, “My punishment is more than I can bear. 14 Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.”

15 But the Lord said to him, “Not so; anyone who kills Cain will suffer vengeance seven times over.” Then the Lord put a mark on Cain so that no one who found him would kill him. 16 So Cain went out from the Lord’s presence and lived in the land of Nod, east of Eden.

17 Cain made love to his wife, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Enoch. Cain was then building a city, and he named it after his son Enoch. 18 To Enoch was born Irad, and Irad was the father of Mehujael, and Mehujael was the father of Methushael, and Methushael was the father of Lamech.

19 Lamech married two women, one named Adah and the other Zillah. 20 Adah gave birth to Jabal; he was the father of those who live in tents and raise livestock. 21 His brother’s name was Jubal; he was the father of all who play stringed instruments and pipes. 22 Zillah also had a son, Tubal-Cain, who forged all kinds of tools out of bronze and iron. Tubal-Cain’s sister was Naamah.

23 Lamech said to his wives,

“Adah and Zillah, listen to me;
wives of Lamech, hear my words.
I have killed a man for wounding me,
a young man for injuring me.
24 If Cain is avenged seven times,
then Lamech seventy-seven times.”
25 Adam made love to his wife again, and she gave birth to a son and named him Seth, saying, “God has granted me another child in place of Abel, since Cain killed him.” 26 Seth also had a son, and he named him Enosh.

At that time people began to call on the name of the Lord.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Another thing God didn't have to do is create the Earth in the first place. I'm thinking you would prefer to not partake in an assignment or project because you know you would fail at it. I reckon that's the attitude you have.
After man ate from the fruit, God could have smote Adam and Eve on the spot but he chose not to.
When Cain killed Abel, God could have killed Cain in anger but he chose to punish him. Yet God also said to Cain that if anyone kills Cain then they will suffer vengeance seven times over.
Even in his punishment he chooses to protect.

You also know that Jesus is the solution to all our sin. Sent by God because he so loved the world.
You also come up with such extreme analogies with a toddler and a gun. I do not see what your point is there is how anybody can relate to it.

Oh and the temptation by the serpent in the Garden, that serpent convinced man that God was holding back and was lying to them. The serpent convinced man that God was tricking us and eating from the fruit of the tree would bring about real joy.
What we find out is that God wasn't lying. The sin that promised joy and life had lead them to the grave.


You're aware of course that nobody reads these walls of text entirely right?
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Mar 28 2016 06:59pm
Quote (WidowMaKer_MK @ 29 Mar 2016 02:50)
...Scripture implies that Eve bore children before the fall since one of her consequences was an increase in pain during childbirth .


So, does choosing to have children or not require free will?

If not, you'll need to explain because I don't understand.
If yes, free will can exist without evil.
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