Quote (thundercock @ Sep 23 2020 06:43pm)

Don't you think the officers lose a lot of credibility due to the fact that they blatantly lied on the report? They claimed that there were no injuries and that they did not force entry.

Quote (Santara @ Sep 24 2020 05:40am)

None of those are facts, they're categorically false.

It was a no-knock warrant, and whether they knocked/announced (which is highly disputed), what isn't in dispute is forcible entry. The victim's boyfriend didn't go answer the door. Any reasonable person is going to take a breach as hostile.
It was the wrong house in the sense that she wasn't the actual target of the investigation AND they had bad/dated information AND they lied about the postal service corroborating their investigation.
Her actual boyfriend, the one who lived with her, is NOT a criminal, he had a license to carry.

Nothing justified a forced entry. Everything the police did, brought defensive gun use onto themselves. They should never have been there, ergo she deserves justice for her death.

I was going to type up a long series of allegories between the Founding Fathers and the Declaration of Independence with the modern plight of black America, but it turns out someone already did:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/texascollectionbaylor/8592759841

It's from 1970, and sad to say, but not too much has changed since then.

And I can't imagine you'd say the Founding Fathers weren't justified in seeking out our independence - by violent means, so tell me again how violence being used to right wrongs can't be compatible with libertarian philosophy.

Quote (Santara @ Sep 24 2020 05:40am)

None of those are facts, they're categorically false.

It was a no-knock warrant, and whether they knocked/announced (which is highly disputed), what isn't in dispute is forcible entry. The victim's boyfriend didn't go answer the door. Any reasonable person is going to take a breach as hostile.
It was the wrong house in the sense that she wasn't the actual target of the investigation AND they had bad/dated information AND they lied about the postal service corroborating their investigation.
Her actual boyfriend, the one who lived with her, is NOT a criminal, he had a license to carry.

Nothing justified a forced entry. Everything the police did, brought defensive gun use onto themselves. They should never have been there, ergo she deserves justice for her death.

I was going to type up a long series of allegories between the Founding Fathers and the Declaration of Independence with the modern plight of black America, but it turns out someone already did:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/texascollectionbaylor/8592759841

It's from 1970, and sad to say, but not too much has changed since then.

And I can't imagine you'd say the Founding Fathers weren't justified in seeking out our independence - by violent means, so tell me again how violence being used to right wrongs can't be compatible with libertarian philosophy.

Quote (cambovenzi @ Sep 24 2020 11:59am)

You are objectively wrong and claiming the opposite, and i'd like to see you use introspection and take a step back from the crazed leftist ledge. Its not a good look.

There being valid warrants for multiple residences is not the same thing as police accidently breaking into the wrong house and shooting some innocent person who had nothing to do with it.
They police only returned fire after walker shot a police officer. Yes he may have thought he was justified. That doesn't change the facts.

They didn't conduct a no knock raid and it wasn't the wrong house, regardless of your feelings and regardless of an initial authorization for a no knock raid.

They specifically acquired a warrant for her residence due to her connections and the residence's connections to a hard drug dealer.
Don't abandon reason to justify your embarrassing and frankly despicable support of leftist rioting.


1. You were objectively wrong
2. Even if you were right it doesn't justify leftist rioting and victimizing innocent people

The founding fathers revolting against a king and fighting for liberty in the revolutionary war is unbelievably different from some literal communists, degenerates, serial child molesters and rapists, and people who have been duped into thinking everything is racist using a police shooting as an excuse to victimize innocent people and destroy property. The false equivalence is absurd.

Libertarian philosophy isn't pacifism but it very plainly doesn't support indiscriminate and discriminate violence against innocent people either.
How much do you really know about the non-aggression principle and property rights theory? This is basics.

You are in no way justified attacking your neighbor and burning down his house just because you think you have a legitimate gripe with police.

Quote (thesnipa @ Sep 24 2020 10:29am)

first he was the "criminal boyfriend", now his crime is association to "hard drug dealers" who lived in a house 10 miles away?

he's a licensed firearm owner. so what makes him a criminal?

Quote (thesnipa @ Sep 24 2020 01:29pm)

first he was the "criminal boyfriend", now his crime is association to "hard drug dealers" who lived in a house 10 miles away?

he's a licensed firearm owner. so what makes him a criminal?

Quote (Handcuffs @ Sep 24 2020 10:58am)

Anyone with law enforcement experience, or I guess just a general opinion, want to illuminate for me why doing such a raid at midnight was given the green light?

Quote (cambovenzi @ Sep 24 2020 01:01pm)

Yes calling the boyfriend who opened fire on police a criminal was uncharitable and I will retract that descriptor.

The other boyfriend is the drug dealer with the criminal record.

Any comment on the meat of either argument?

Quote (cambovenzi @ Sep 24 2020 01:01pm)

Yes calling the boyfriend who opened fire on police a criminal was uncharitable and I will retract that descriptor.

The other boyfriend is the drug dealer with the criminal record.

Any comment on the meat of either argument?

Quote (thesnipa @ Sep 24 2020 02:20pm)

Firstly i'd say no-knock warrants in general would be i think repugnant to a Libertarian be they left or right leaning within the party.

whether they did knock or not seems to be not in question, nor is it valid, given the no-knock warrant, legally.

Once they entered by force it can go 1 of 2 ways.

1.) they loudly announced themselves, any self defense from that point wouldn't be valid, but a prosecutor is not likely to charge K. Walker regardless.

2.) they did not loudly announce themselves, self defense and stand your ground laws make both K. Walker's actions entirely justified legally and officers guilty of a crime, although likely not murder 1 or even close.

i'd ask what your opinion on the warrant itself is and what your opinion on no knock warrants are generally.

Quote

had it been the wrong house (it wasnt) they'd be guilty of more. had the drug dealers they were looking for been there (they werent) they'd be guilty of less.

Quote

in general it seems the "guilt" here that necessitated a warrant (no knock no less) is that Ms. Taylor once dated a suspected drug dealer. now she's dead for that association, despite dating someone new, not living with that SUSPECTED drug dealer, and not even getting a chance to comply with a search of her home, which i find spurious in any case. what's the police theory? this ex gf is a stash house 10 miles from their house for hard drugs? seems flimsy for even a regular warrant, let alone midnight raid no knock.