Quote (Djunior @ 11 Jul 2023 21:25)

Again you completely fail to get the point...

Presidents can take controversial decisions even when parliament does NOT agree with that

As in the case of pension reforms -->Macron bypassed parliament voting on this because he knew it had a big chance to fail

The point is that presidents can take such a decision

Quote (Meanwhile @ Jul 11 2023 04:31pm)

Parliament removed him by a crushing majority. His lies about EU agreements are also completed by terrible things. Obviously you didn't read wiki about Yanukovich who ended up fleeing into Russia lol.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Yanukovych
He was even Disavowed by his own party LOL
Definitely not related with French president, more likely your usual personal attacks sick manners because you know I'm french.

Quote (Meanwhile @ Jul 11 2023 09:31pm)

Parliament removed him by a crushing majority. His lies about EU agreements are also completed by terrible things. Obviously you didn't read wiki about Yanukovich who ended up fleeing into Russia lol.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Yanukovych
He was even Disavowed by his own party LOL
Definitely not related with French president, more likely your usual personal attacks sick manners because you know I'm french.

Quote (ofthevoid @ Jul 11 2023 06:26am)

From David Sacks on Twitter

Quote (Santara @ Jul 11 2023 03:42pm)

European manufacturers (Spanish, French, Czech, German, & British predominantly) produce about 50k shells per month (3x US total) and are also ramping up. Pretty sure Australian, Canadian, and South African producers are as well.

Quote (ofthevoid @ Jul 11 2023 02:47pm)

And do you have any news that says all of this will be pledged to Ukraine?

Personally I'm not doubting that on war footing the two richest continents combined would easily be able to outproduce Russia, but is it happening though?

edit: and the monthly number you quoted is literally Russia's 1 day firing based on source I quoted.

Quote (DizzyBusiness @ Jul 11 2023 02:18pm)

1. "Train protesters how to protest" phrasing it like this is dishonest or ignorant, pumping millions or billions into a very poor and corrupt country with the express purpose of creating resentment towards the nuclear super power next door is a bit more than training protesters how to protest. This sort of thing also doesn't happen by accident, nor does it happen overnight, to think the US just took advantage of a completely natural situation is the height of naivety.

2. The sun is hot.

3. The sun is hot.

4.?

5. The sun is hot.

6. The sun is hot.

7. Pro US as in beneficial for the US or Pro US in the sense that there were factions in the country that wanted the US to get involved? Either way this is incorrect.

8. Failure in what sense? They dominated the middle east for decades through force or economic influence, was anyone under the impression the US wanted to build California part 2 out in the dunes? Their purpose there was extending US dollar hegemony and limiting Chinas access to energy, which they managed for quite awhile and probably still do to some extent.

9. It was started by stoking public fury and fear enough for the American people to demand action, as per usual.

10. If a country agrees to be a vassal state and allows its natural and human resources to be plundered by the US then yes, they don't get bombed into the stone age, how generous. If I point a gun at you and say give me your wallet, there is a good chance you would give me your wallet, that doesn't make it a voluntary action lol.

11. Yeah how many dead in Ukraine vs Iraq? Not nearly as bad yet, give it time though they are trying their best to get those numbers up.

12. I think this is a stupid contention.

That is my view, not very productive which is why I didn't share it initially but if you want to know why I was dismissive this is it.

Quote (thesnipa @ Jul 11 2023 08:21pm)

1. why doesnt the US have any business being in Ukraine in 2014?

the obvious answer is "that's russian territory" in terms of NATO creep arguments Putin makes. give me a break, its a sovereign nation. it was being run as a proxy for Russia by their guy. its not Moscow, it's Kyiv. do i personally support the US being there and stoking tensions? no. is it hallowed ground we should never step foot on? not even close. some solid minority % of the population desires closer ties with the west, its not a no-go for politicians to go there and lobby for that. funding protesters is dirty pool, openly lobbying for trade talks isn't.

2. it IS the key question.

we shot the dying man. whether the man was all but dead already OR whether he could have been saved at a hospital is the central question to just how instrumental we were. i know we shot, you know we shot, i think he was dead either way, you dont want to explore that. its not a miles deep what if, its in fact my entire point in this thread. did the US turn the tides, or ride the wave?

Quote (thesnipa @ Jul 11 2023 08:59pm)

just to dial in to 1 specific, do you actually think the Iraq and Afghanistan wars were a success for the USA?

6-8 TRILLION dollars, we lost totally in Afghanistan, and our Iraqi alliance isn't exactly fruitful, Syria was an abject failure we got nothing from.

we're talking about potential millions or even low billions pumped into Ukraine vs 6000-8000x more than that spent in the Middle East. in the middle east we got almost nothing, in Ukraine we severed the country from Russian influence. i dont condone either, but paying 6000x less just for the country to BUY weapons from you to fight their own war seems far more successful objectively.

Quote (ferdia @ Jul 11 2023 03:02pm)

One does not get to kill someone and say "he was dying anyway, he had nothing left to give". Ultimately on the geopolitical stage there are serious rules and red lines.
Cuba was a US red line and Ukraine was a Russian red line. We are not talking about morality. Sure, countries can pursue their own agenda but when that agenda results in a threat to their neighbor's then I am sorry but shit happens.



you do realise this is so far removed from morality right ? It is not right to seek objectives that will send a rival superpower into the stone age. It is not long term viable to shit on the world and expect the world not to shit back.

Quote (Santara @ Jul 11 2023 09:42pm)

European manufacturers (Spanish, French, Czech, German, & British predominantly) produce about 50k shells per month (3x US total) and are also ramping up. Pretty sure Australian, Canadian, and South African producers are as well.