The only pieces of shits here are people who argued about "NATO being such a threat" and that "Russia has no other choice than defending itself"

And 2 months later we have Russians corrupted soldiers killing citizen on the street, looting appartments, and raping women and children.

Such a GENIUS !

You can't in many ways force civilians to pick up arms then somehow expect you won't have this result. My wife has family in western Ukraine not too far from Lviv. Weeks ago they said that the Ukrainian army came recruiting civilians males to go to the front. Aside from southwestern Ukraine, these towns were the front. Western headlines of kids building molotovs and civilians being taught to shoot, presented as heroic for us to cheer now turn into this grim reality. Who could have predicted this right?

This post was edited by ofthevoid on Apr 3 2022 10:21am

You're such a genius that you don't even know what you're talking about even though I've posted plenty sources already.

As far back as 2008 smart people have argued that expanding NATO all the way to Russia's border isn't a good idea you should watch some instead of watching woke french MSM.

They left the town on March, 30th, confirmed by governor. 4 days after we see bodies on the streets. Fake.

I saw videos of the dead in the street 3 days ago. Your refutation is fake.

But the whole reason for Nord Stream II was that Ukraine had implicit veto power over the pipelines as a transit country. Not just that Russia could shut it off, but Ukraine could too. Pipelines run through Kiev, Lviv, Odessa. Most have exits near the south of Lviv and the Ukrainian government could have sabotaged them at any time. How can we reach a point where the Ukrainian army is forcibly shanghaiing refugees into a desperate resistance, where child soldiers are fashioning molotov cocktails and civilians are being massacred and (some) cities flattened and literal nazis are committing war crimes- and somehow the pipelines are still in operation? We're still seeing headlines about "what if Russia turns off gas to germany". But Ukrainians could have done it at any time, all the Russian-German gas runs through their country. How can the Ukrainians be in such desperate straits that they're basically at the stage of Germany's last resistance circa spring 1945, and still be unwilling to cut off the leverage Russia holds over Europe? Is it a fear based entirely on the premise that they could rapidly turn on Nord Stream II? But even if its supposed to be a rational decision, how do you curtail an entire country and military who could act on their own? If you're a rando Ukrainian civilian you're probably not too enthusiastic about Germany beholden to Russian interests and pussyfooting around its war response and refusing to ship meaningful weapons.

And I still truly don't get the Russian willingness to butcher people but unwillingness to flatten cities. They already triggered one of the maximum possible international responses. All the countries who could be swayed by humanitarian concern have been swayed. Countries that have rational self interests and don't gauge this conflict any more than Syria or Yemen, aren't going to respond either way. They already left a very radicalized Zelenksy regime in charge of the Ukrainian government, and now its heavily armed with western weapons. They could have carpet bombed Lviv and Kiev until they surrendered. Or they could have avoided it entirely, and left the cities beyond the edges of the Donbass and its water supply untouched. Instead they did all this encirclement maneuvering, then abandoned it. Unless he's about to nuke Kiev, I can't understand that.

This post was edited by Goomshill on Apr 3 2022 11:31am

This argument was based on the assumption of peace/normal times, not an ongoing war in which Ukraine's survival depends entirely on the amount of Western support they receive.




Again: if Ukraine sabotaged the gas pipelines, they would trigger a massive recession and loss of wealth in Western Europe. If the West found out about the Ukrainian responsibility, the outrage would know no bounds and public opinion would do a 180. We'd basically tell the Ukrainians that they can go fuck themselves and are on their own. We all know how long they'd last against Russia in that scenario. The course of action you're proposing essentially amounts to the Ukrainians gambling their existence on the West not finding out that the devastating stop of Russian gas shipments is a false flag.





- If Russia's actions were genuinely driven by concern over NATO expansion, it would serve their goals to leave Ukraine as a smoldering ruin. By contrast, if they want to force Ukraine back into their sphere of influence, become part of the Russia-dominated "Eurasian Economic Union" and all that, they want to preserve as much of Ukraine's infrastructure as possible. Likewise, if Putin was mainly driven by concern over Ukraine becoming a functioning democracy and thus a risk of igniting the democratic spark in Russia, then producing pictures of Ukrainian cities being ruthlessly bombed into the stone age would also be counterproductive.

- Such images might also have made it harder for his allies and businesspartners, like China, India or Turkey, to stay away from sanctions or diplomatic action.

- The current Ukrainian government is heavily armed with Western weapons, yes, but only light weapons like javelins and stingers. Until now, the West has refused to give jets or modern tanks to Ukraine, just like they have refused to get involved in the conflict with troops of their own. Russia going for a no-prisoners approach would risk these stances changing once the Western public sees images of the carnage.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Apr 3 2022 11:49am

How do you know they were actively fighting the Russians? There's no evidence they did. Just because the government tell people to do something doesn't mean they do it

Is this where you show the picture of the corpse moving its arm when on slow-mo it's a drop of water moving down the car windscreen

Reportedly, many of the corpses found in Bucha literally had their hands tied behind their back. Even if they were fighting the Russians at some point, these people were neutralized prisoners when they were executed, so it's still a clear-cut war crime.