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Jul 4 2023 06:35am
Quote (JohnnyMcCoy @ Jul 4 2023 09:28am)
too reasonable


I bet if I grew a funny mustache and screamed it from a podium he would agree with me :D
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Jul 4 2023 06:36am
Quote (ferdia @ 4 Jul 2023 14:14)
( a peace deal proposal was repeatedly detailed previously in this thread, and yes it involved Ukraine ceding land to Russia ).


a peace deal that involves ukraine ceding territory to russia (let's not forget we're talking about territory that russia acknowledged to be ukrainian in the past, repeatedly) is just as unrealistic as russia outright withdrawing from ukraine.

the sad truth of the situation is that neither side is desperate enough to basically admit defeat:

- ukraine because it knows what happens to them if they just give in (the ethnic cleansings russia committed in crimea to make it "predominantly russian" will be child's play compared to what russia would do in the newly conquered regions), know that russia will inevitably conquer and cleanse their whole country if they keep getting away with doing that to one region after the other
- russia because it's ruled by a dictator who committed to conquest and doesn't care about destroying his country's future (even the tens or hundreds of thousands child abductions won't save them from their demographic doom and brain drain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_abductions_in_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine ), and relegating it to being china's gas station...

so what it comes down to is who we want to help put the other party in a situation they are forced to settle for a deal they don't like: do we want to help the dictator by depriving the attacked country of means to defend itself, or do we want to help the defenders by making the war too costly for the invaders?
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Jul 4 2023 06:41am
Quote (JohnnyMcCoy @ 4 Jul 2023 14:31)
dude talks about russia getting repelled, meanwhile in reality they withdrew when the peace offer was on the table, that got nuked by washington/NATO


bahahaha... you can't even acknowledge simple facts that go against your "russia is so great, and the west is so bad" narrative, there isn't an ounce of kremlin copium you don't eagerly huff like the bot you are.

point is, russia DID push for the whole of ukraine, and 's narrative about them "just" wanting parts of the country is complete bullshit.
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Jul 4 2023 06:41am
Quote (fender @ Jul 4 2023 09:36am)
a peace deal that involves ukraine ceding territory to russia (let's not forget we're talking about territory that russia acknowledged to be ukrainian in the past, repeatedly) is just as unrealistic as russia outright withdrawing from ukraine.

the sad truth of the situation is that neither side is desperate enough to basically admit defeat:

- ukraine because it knows what happens to them if they just give in (the ethnic cleansings russia committed in crimea to make it "predominantly russian" will be child's play compared to what russia would do in the newly conquered regions), know that russia will inevitably conquer and cleanse their whole country if they keep getting away with doing that to one region after the other
- russia because it's ruled by a dictator who committed to conquest and doesn't care about destroying his country's future (even the tens or hundreds of thousands child abductions won't save them from their demographic doom and brain drain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_abductions_in_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine ), and relegating it to being china's gas station...

so what it comes down to is who we want to help put the other party in a situation they are forced to settle for a deal they don't like: do we want to help the dictator by depriving the attacked country of means to defend itself, or do we want to help the defenders by making the war too costly for the invaders?


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Jul 4 2023 06:47am
Quote (DizzyBusiness @ 4 Jul 2023 15:35)
I bet if I grew a funny mustache and screamed it from a podium he would agree with me :D


Do you have experience of being rejected by art school?
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Jul 4 2023 06:52am
Quote (DizzyBusiness @ Jul 4 2023 02:35pm)
I bet if I grew a funny mustache and screamed it from a podium he would agree with me :D


^_^

Quote (fender @ Jul 4 2023 02:41pm)
bahahaha... you can't even acknowledge simple facts that go against your "russia is so great, and the west is so bad" narrative, there isn't an ounce of kremlin copium you don't eagerly huff like the bot you are.

point is, russia DID push for the whole of ukraine, and ^ferdia's narrative about them "just" wanting parts of the country is complete bullshit.


russia is not great, if they were the war would be won already

you are just making up random shit people never said, thats how desperate you are

meanwhile in reality it was ukraine cracking down on russians, their language and culture in crimea and putins troops received a hero's welcome

people who disagreed like in odessa got burned alive by your favorite nazis

that was reported by the exact same media, that ordered you to talk differently now ^_^

spinning reality by 180 degrees is truly an art, i give you that fenderp

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Jul 4 2023 06:57am
Quote (Norlander @ Jul 4 2023 09:47am)
Do you have experience of being rejected by art school?


No but my internet was out for like 6 hours last night so I think I can draw upon that well of rage instead.
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Jul 4 2023 06:58am
Quote (JohnnyMcCoy @ 4 Jul 2023 14:52)
^_^



russia is not great, if they were the war would be won already

you are just making up random shit people never said, thats how desperate you are

meanwhile in reality it was ukraine cracking down on russians, their language and culture in crimea and putins troops received a hero's welcome

people who disagreed like in odessa got burned alive by your favorite nazis

that was reported by the exact same media, that ordered you to talk differently now ^_^

spinning reality by 180 degrees is truly an art, i give you that fenderp


nice propaganda take, maybe google the ethnic cleansings in crimea, kremlin bot.

oh right, let me guess. those are just lies, and only what russia's state media says is the actual truth, correct?

you war apologists are hilarious with your mental gymnastic routines...
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Jul 4 2023 06:59am
My peace proposal
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Jul 4 2023 07:00am
Quote (IceMage @ Jul 3 2023 09:18pm)
I'm going to resist getting too salty, but haven't you been to Ukraine? You or your wife might have family there? And you want to subject them to the Russian army? The dudes who castrate Ukrainian men, who rape, torture, and murder the women? You would like those men to have Carte Blanche over Ukraine? This isn't Western propaganda, it's what they do. They are not a disciplined military. They are men ready to do evil.

Pretending that opposing military aid to Ukraine is actually helping the people of Ukraine is bullshit, plain and simple. You're some dude in New York pretending that you know how a normal Ukrainian feels. If Ukrainians want to fight, Americans should give them the tools to do so. If they want to negotiate, we should help them there. What we should not do is pressure them to capitulate to the raping, torturing, murdering Russian army/government. That's what you're trying to do.


Been to Ukraine a dozen times, know Ukrainians, have family members who are Ukrainians. To me, these lives are worth more than the city of Donetsk or Kherson being under Ukraine's flag or Russia's flag. You have a bullshit view on what life would be under Russian influence. Maybe if I wasn't from eastern Europe i'd buy that nonsense. I can tell you for a fact that Ukrainians lived pretty okay prior to Maidan under a Russian puppet. Exponentially better than the current reality of having both young and old sent to the front.

No military aid= war ends. Sure the hawks in Ukraine won't be happy because they will have to give concessions and the dollars will stop flowing but at least tens of thousands of men will have their lives.

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