Lol oh ya? From the Twitter reports you have read? As we all know no truth exists unless someone tweets it right? Seems incredibly naive but you do you brother

I didn't ask for a 5 page essay did I? I asked for some of the other reasons, didn't I? If it is so simple and obvious that shouldn't be a hard request but instead you respond with some strawman BS like that? Lol you are usually a much better poster than this, disappointing tbh.

Seems to me you are the one making definitive claims, all I did was question them but I'm behaving like meanwhile? Lol look in the mirror champ

Why so emotional about this anyway?

Id love to discuss or read about the repercussions, the consequences, the losses and gains of what happened - I think that is very interesting and a super valid topic. But nobody is doing that, instead everyone is having a dick-fest about whether it was a conspiracy from alien invaders or an obvious betrayal.. and that annoys me. Also the attempt of proving something can sometimes not be worth the effort because it is a far too large undertaking, and in many cases straight up impossible, even though the truth is fairly obvious. This is the same reason why people are still talking about how 9/11 was an inside job.

This is why i referenced NS1, because what i wrote ^ applies perfectly to that situation as well. Another perfect example would be ZNPP artillery strikes.

I´ll give you a hint ukraine & partners were behind NS1 I am 100% certain, but can you prove it for me? This sort of discourse is what i would essentially call shifting-focus by aiming it at something pointless regarding a subject and ignoring the more important aspects of the subject..

Also nobody could be as low as meanwhile, all i am trying to say is don´t compete with him

This post was edited by ownyaah on Jun 25 2023 02:18am

Probably you are right. Corruption and plain stupidity goes hand in hand with current Russian government. As if a grandmaster is playing a blind match with an imbecile trying to predict the course of his thoughts, but in his head there is only desert and tumbleweed.

Go ahead, I'm not stopping you lol

I have a different opinion, the only reason I took issue with yours is because you declared it to be true beyond a shadow of a doubt and anyone with a differing opinion is just lying. I have a differing opinion and I'm not lying, could be I'm just stupid, but I'd rather be called that than a liar.

I think saying the Russian government/Wagner could be lying is a few steps removed from alien conspiracies...

I agree mostly, but i think you overestimate the incompetency sometimes norlander, which is very usual for easterners. Here is what i would say:
1. I don´t know for certain 100% why Prigoznin did what he did. Was it because Putin decided to have wagner soldiers sign contracts with MoD? Was it because Prigoznin was tired of corruption within russia? Did he grow grandiuse? Was he misled by external sources? Did he want an end to russian soldiers dying after witnessing bakhmut? Was it perhaps all of these reasons? Was it another reason or several other?


2. He definitely did it what he did. There is no need to speculate this part.



I was perhaps a bit too harsh, what i wrote wasn´t aimed at you personally, but several people posting, some of whom enjoy being bullshiters and big egobois.

Probably you need a few days off, then slowly reflect about what happened and you will most likely reach same conclusion. I´ve studied politics for a long time, directly after something happens it can be very hard to put a proper picture together because in politics there can be a lot variables and factors involved. If you read my comments from when it was ongoing i was also a bit baffled, and uncertain how to grasp it.

This post was edited by ownyaah on Jun 25 2023 02:29am

Probably it was his ultimatum partially fulfilled by Putin and Lukashenko. If Shoigu or Gerasimov, or both resign after this then everything was not in vain.

This is certainly a possibility, but i would argue a lower chance of gerasimov being replaced.

I would argue a more likely scenario is that the deal, if there was one, is that Surovikin becomes more dominant, seeing as he is favored and viewed positively by all sides.