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Apr 27 2021 01:37pm
Quote (bogie160 @ Apr 27 2021 10:34am)
The Tea Party was a ~3-4 year movement that encompassed one wing of the Republican party. You are extrapolating that to a half-century or more of political thought. American conservatives, historically, have been pro-growth and pro-business. Pro-growth has meant an opposition to regulation and opposition to tax increases. Reagan, for instance, did not oppose either Social Security or Medicare. Both programs are popular (unfortunately so, given their long-term financial short-falls) with Republicans and Democrats alike.

Republicans have spent the last few weeks working with Manchin and others on achieving realistic, measured infrastructure investment. They've spent a great deal of time criticizing Biden's spending plan for what it is, large, irresponsible, and indiscriminate pay-off to Democrat-aligned "green" business interests. They've spent a great deal of time identifying the real world economic costs to handicapping American access to energy. The current "meat ban" debacle is the result of a study which indicated that meat consumption would have to fall precipitously in order to achieve significant (~50%) reductions in carbon emissions. Biden supports a 50% reduction in carbon emissions, and so its reasonable to hear how Biden plans to achieve the latter without the former. I doubt you are getting this context from the Daily Show, so perhaps you need to reevaluate your news consumption.

I don't like the term "culture war". We are talking about the chilling effects of censorship on public and private speech. The racializing of American politics. Fundamental attacks on the legitimacy of the government to enforce the law and maintain order. These things clearly matter, have mattered, and will continue to matter.

A few years ago, there was a debate on whether mainstream news had left-wing bias. Allegations that Twitter and other social media outlets were "shadow-banning" were decried as conspiratorial. It is now commonly understood that the mainstream outlets are hopelessly compromised, their repeated editorial failures have been well-documented, and social media censorship is acknowledged as a matter of course. Moving from denial towards acceptance is progress. Too many conservatives were, and some still are, in denial about the reality of the situation they face. As the administration said a day or so ago, "words matter", and it is not a light or trivial thing to undo, undermine, and destroy the centuries of intellectual thought and history upon which this country has been founded.


I'm not convinced that Republicans in the Senate are acting in good faith given but I'm willing to give some of the senators the benefit of the doubt. I think the current strategy for Democrats is wise: their ideal scenario where they can whip 50 votes via budget reconciliation and the scenario where they work with Republicans. Unfortunately, the packages are just way too far apart at the moment for there to be any hope of bipartisan legislation. I have a feeling that the "infrastructure bill" is going to cut eldercare and a few other things and we'll end up with a ~1.6 trillion dollar package.

I'm not sure why you're trying to justify the meat ban rhetoric lol. It's fear mongering that has no basis in reality and it's actively hurting the conservative cause. When you are shoveling so much bullshit, people aren't going to listen when there are legitimate issues.

Politics have always been racial so I'm not exactly sure what you're referring to here. Yes, some groups are going overboard but I think that's expected. Law enforcement is in dire need of reform b/c they've lost the trust of the general population. We MUST rebuild that trust or things will get worse. I agree that we're treading into dangerous territory when it comes to attacks on free speech. People are WAY too intolerant of opposing views and it's damaging our country. Tech censorship is also an issue but you need to understand that the right is far more abusive than the left when it comes to rhetoric, belief in conspiracy theories, etc. The intellectual right has lost complete control over its coalition. We had a chance to clean up the house and we failed miserably. You reap what you sow!
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Apr 27 2021 01:45pm
Quote (thundercock @ Apr 27 2021 03:08pm)
You're not wrong that fiscal conservatives want low taxes and low spending. However, you can't have tax cuts and high spending which is what Republicans stand for with their actions.

Democrats want to raise taxes on certain segments in order to cover the additional spending. To me, that is more fiscally responsible than deficit spending.


'High' is relative. What are you comparing republican spending to say it is high? Certainly not democratic spending proposals because that's higher. So you're basically coming up with your own arbitrary definition of what's high or what's your reference point?

I copy-pasted the definition of what fiscal conservatism is for a reason. If you guys want to make up your own definitions that's fine I suppose, we do live in a time when it's become acceptable to change definitions just to push our ideas.

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Apr 27 2021 01:47pm
Quote (ofthevoid @ Apr 27 2021 02:45pm)
'High' is relative. What are you comparing republican spending to say it is high? Certainly not democratic spending proposals because that's higher. So you're basically coming up with your own arbitrary definition of what's high or what's your reference point?

I copy-pasted the definition of what fiscal conservatism is for a reason. If you guys want to make up your own definitions that's fine I suppose, we do live in a time when it's become acceptable to change definitions just to push our ideas.


u just keep saying the dems spend more, barging through people telling you increased taxes offset that point.

you see increased corporate taxes as unacceptable, fair enough, but writing it off as if it isnt a valid point is just bias.

"but websters dictionary says" in a conversation where the topic is a change over time is silly af tbh lol.

come on bruh.
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Apr 27 2021 01:51pm
Quote (thesnipa @ Apr 27 2021 03:47pm)
u just keep saying the dems spend more, barging through people telling you increased taxes offset that point.

you see increased corporate taxes as unacceptable, fair enough, but writing it off as if it isnt a valid point is just bias.

"but websters dictionary says" in a conversation where the topic is a change over time is silly af tbh lol.

come on bruh.


It's not about acceptable vs not acceptable I'm just trying to be consistent with what words mean.

I don't need to contort reality to come to the conclusion that low taxes and low spending has always been central to what fiscal conservatism strides for.

Because republicans failed to achieve one then that definition somehow changed? Um no.

This post was edited by ofthevoid on Apr 27 2021 01:52pm
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Apr 27 2021 01:59pm
Quote (ofthevoid @ Apr 27 2021 02:51pm)
It's not about acceptable vs not acceptable I'm just trying to be consistent with what words mean.

I don't need to contort reality to come to the conclusion that low taxes and low spending has always been central to what fiscal conservatism strides for.

Because republicans failed to achieve one then that definition somehow changed? Um no.


if you feel the need to dumb down a complex topic to "tax less, spend less" then ok. i guess its up to you if thats how simplistic of a worldview u need to retreat to in order to back up your biases.

even looking at objective reality the GOP wants to cut taxes more and cut spending less than they used to.

then again if you thought for more than 2 seconds you'd realize ive been comparing older eras of GOP spending/taxing to the modern one, but u just stated the 2bn budget of the democrats in an embarrassing kneejerk whataboutism. from the onset you tried to make the topic into "but but but false equivalence", when my point all along was the decline of responsibility in the GOP budgeting. we used to have a choice of fiscal responsibility and fiscal irresponsibility. we no longer do, its a choice of a bigger or smaller bill, both irresponsible.

but sure, stay on that 40 iq level of a googled definition lol. im sorry thats what you're capable of tbh. could have saved myself some time if i realized i was getting into such a childish conversation. dont worry tho chihuahua Duckling will be along to cheer lead you.
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Apr 27 2021 02:12pm
Quote (thundercock @ Apr 27 2021 03:37pm)
I'm not convinced that Republicans in the Senate are acting in good faith given but I'm willing to give some of the senators the benefit of the doubt. I think the current strategy for Democrats is wise: their ideal scenario where they can whip 50 votes via budget reconciliation and the scenario where they work with Republicans. Unfortunately, the packages are just way too far apart at the moment for there to be any hope of bipartisan legislation. I have a feeling that the "infrastructure bill" is going to cut eldercare and a few other things and we'll end up with a ~1.6 trillion dollar package.

I'm not sure why you're trying to justify the meat ban rhetoric lol. It's fear mongering that has no basis in reality and it's actively hurting the conservative cause. When you are shoveling so much bullshit, people aren't going to listen when there are legitimate issues.

Politics have always been racial so I'm not exactly sure what you're referring to here. Yes, some groups are going overboard but I think that's expected. Law enforcement is in dire need of reform b/c they've lost the trust of the general population. We MUST rebuild that trust or things will get worse. I agree that we're treading into dangerous territory when it comes to attacks on free speech. People are WAY too intolerant of opposing views and it's damaging our country. Tech censorship is also an issue but you need to understand that the right is far more abusive than the left when it comes to rhetoric, belief in conspiracy theories, etc. The intellectual right has lost complete control over its coalition. We had a chance to clean up the house and we failed miserably. You reap what you sow!


The Democrats are modern day Jimmy Carters. We have to do with less, consumption needs to decrease, energy must be raised to a level at which "excessive" consumption is prohibitively expensive. That sort of pathetic defeatism is unamerican. Unfortunately, the political leadership of the Republican party is completely incompetent and unable to form any sort of coherent ideological argument.

A majority of Americans want the same or increased police presence in their communities. Police reform, and public union reform, needs to happen, but it needs to be framed for what it is, a civil rights issue that impacts every American. The notion that white police officers are hunting down or otherwise killing black men because of racial prejudice is not supported by any facts or statistics that we possess. Blacks are killed by white officers at a frequency lower than their share of arrests. When we talk about misinformation abuse and rhetoric, we need to consider that these things are universally accepted by mainstream, moderate Democrats, and they simply aren't true. That's far more injurious than a few Marjorie Taylor Greene's who are universally mocked outside of their small constituents.
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Apr 27 2021 02:50pm
Quote (bogie160 @ Apr 27 2021 03:12pm)
The Democrats are modern day Jimmy Carters. We have to do with less, consumption needs to decrease, energy must be raised to a level at which "excessive" consumption is prohibitively expensive. That sort of pathetic defeatism is unamerican. Unfortunately, the political leadership of the Republican party is completely incompetent and unable to form any sort of coherent ideological argument.


We should let the market decide by not allowing companies to socialize the problems and privatize the profits.

This will increase the price but incentivize innovation.
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Apr 27 2021 02:55pm
Quote (thesnipa @ Apr 27 2021 03:59pm)
if you feel the need to dumb down a complex topic to "tax less, spend less" then ok. i guess its up to you if thats how simplistic of a worldview u need to retreat to in order to back up your biases.

even looking at objective reality the GOP wants to cut taxes more and cut spending less than they used to.

then again if you thought for more than 2 seconds you'd realize ive been comparing older eras of GOP spending/taxing to the modern one, but u just stated the 2bn budget of the democrats in an embarrassing kneejerk whataboutism. from the onset you tried to make the topic into "but but but false equivalence", when my point all along was the decline of responsibility in the GOP budgeting. we used to have a choice of fiscal responsibility and fiscal irresponsibility. we no longer do, its a choice of a bigger or smaller bill, both irresponsible.

but sure, stay on that 40 iq level of a googled definition lol. im sorry thats what you're capable of tbh. could have saved myself some time if i realized i was getting into such a childish conversation. dont worry tho chihuahua Duckling will be along to cheer lead you.


I gave you two recent examples of spending that paint a pretty clear picture of party spending patterns. You refuse to acknowledge that and just keep conveniently ignoring and now want to compare old fiscal conservatism vs this current iteration? Like lol.

Platforms evolve, no shit, but I'm trying to be consistent in my comparisons instead of holding a retarded perspective that budgets & spending plans with differences that add up to hundreds of billions if not trillions are all the same because both want to spend so both are not fiscally conservative. Like maybe you're just unable to process numbers once they get to a certain digit count so it's all the same to you? idk

This post was edited by ofthevoid on Apr 27 2021 03:00pm
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Apr 27 2021 03:10pm
Quote (thesnipa @ Apr 27 2021 03:59pm)
if you feel the need to dumb down a complex topic to "tax less, spend less" then ok. i guess its up to you if thats how simplistic of a worldview u need to retreat to in order to back up your biases.

even looking at objective reality the GOP wants to cut taxes more and cut spending less than they used to.

then again if you thought for more than 2 seconds you'd realize ive been comparing older eras of GOP spending/taxing to the modern one, but u just stated the 2bn budget of the democrats in an embarrassing kneejerk whataboutism. from the onset you tried to make the topic into "but but but false equivalence", when my point all along was the decline of responsibility in the GOP budgeting. we used to have a choice of fiscal responsibility and fiscal irresponsibility. we no longer do, its a choice of a bigger or smaller bill, both irresponsible.

but sure, stay on that 40 iq level of a googled definition lol. im sorry thats what you're capable of tbh. could have saved myself some time if i realized i was getting into such a childish conversation. dont worry tho chihuahua Duckling will be along to cheer lead you.



Sorry, ITT we see numbers with too many commas too complicated for you and Thor and Icey.

Lmao, I can just imagine you all waking up everyone drinking your latte and say we must tax the rich evil corporations

Although void is correct, you are ignoring his points

This post was edited by Duckling on Apr 27 2021 03:10pm
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Apr 27 2021 03:12pm
Quote (Duckling @ Apr 27 2021 04:10pm)
Sorry, ITT we see numbers with too many commas too complicated for you and Thor and Icey.

Lmao, I can just imagine you all waking up everyone drinking your latte and say we must tax the rich evil corporations


This dismissive attitude toward your betters is why you'll always be a mall cop. Can't learn if you aren't willing to listen.
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