If you have no physical limitation stopping you from doing it why should you be offered any assistance to do it?

If you are 100% mentally committed to doing it than the physical act isn't particularly hard, so the only real limitation for you is the mental one is it not? If not 100% committed to it than I don't see why things should be made any easier.

If governments around the world perfect governing and manage to solve every problem that plagues humanity and every part of the world becomes productive, peaceful and free from all social ills, then I could maybe see an argument being made for governments directing resources towards something like this, but I don't think there would be a big demand for it at that point.

Ah, my friend, you're not 'a rand'. Or, if you are, it is because we are all equally rands. I appreciate you sharing your perspective, and it sounds like under very specific conditions you'd be supportive of assisted suicide, namely in the event of physical suffering/terminal illness.

It's a tricky subject, I'll be the first to admit it. It is interesting to think that social conditions impact what otherwise is (from a philosophical perspective) an arguable 'right'. That, again, we all should have the right to self-determination and this includes retaining the right that nobody and no entity should be able to force you to continue conscious living. However, would people seek out such an opportunity (ie. assisted suicide) if their fundamental basic needs, health, and interpersonal connections were met? Difficult to say or imagine why someone would under those circumstances. And yet, I'd argue that they still retain this right.

Professional assessment is also tricky. I work as a therapist in California, and have worked with quite a few folks navigating active suicidal ideation. Of the adverse conditions people most-often site, a simple assessment and even psychotherapy may not relieve (ie. financial woe, existential crisis, homelessness, serious abuse, etc.). Is it ethical for a society to not allow people the freedom and opportunity for suicide if we are unable or unwilling to address the fundamental conditions that lead some people to suicide? To give an example, I've recently worked with people who were homeless and struggling w/ severe addiction, and who were coincidingly suicidal. In the county I work in, our single homeless shelter was at capacity and not taking any new people, we had no housing programs to get people into, and there was a 2-5 month waitlist for access to substance use treatment. So, we do all kinds of assessment and identify significant stressors, but as a society we are unable to help people address those stressors while trying to convince them of some kind of 'hope'. A very bizarre position to be in.



Watching a loved one go through such suffering rather than being able to die with a sense of dignity is quite painful.

I also hear, and have an understanding of, your concerns/limitations of this option in the face of mental illness. Valid as that concern is, I do wonder though about suicidal ideation that is independent of mental or physical illness. What if a person feels that they have a secular/existential understanding of the world as meaningless, without purpose, and of pure absurdity? Existence is like spawning into an MMO. What if, after careful consideration, you no longer wish to play and want to log-out permanently?

I made a sand castle at the beach once, simply because I could and wanted to. I then walked away once down.



Yeah, I agree. Very tight regulation and efforts to encourage people to find new ways of navigating this crisis would seem to be the bare minimum needed.



I agree. Especially those who don't return their shopping carts.

I suppose there's an argument I would make about harm reduction in the sense that people who engage in suicidal behavior without any kind of assistance may find themselves engaging in acts of suicide that are particularly impulsive, painful, and result in a great deal of undue suffering. There's also tremendous trauma endured by loved ones who either had to walk in on their loved one with a shotgun blast to the face, hanging in their closet, or worried about their loved one who just left and never returned.

If, however, people had a place to go where they could actually plan their exit from conscious existence and in a controlled environment (ie. financial planning, who to notify, non-painful methods of dying, etc.), then I think we'd have less resulting trauma in some cases in the aftermath of suicide.

By reducing the risk and harm someone might endure by committing suicide you are also making it an easier decision for someone who is on the edge to make.

People facing trauma from their loved ones committing suicide is horrible for sure, but I dont see the solution to that as having them commit suicide elsewhere, I would rather focus on trying to solve that person's issues as I'm sure the family would in most cases.

There are many great people in the world who seriously considered suicide and if it was a painless button press with all your affairs cared for I think many would have went that route and we all would have lost out on their contributions and they would have missed the happiness they found in life later on.

And if people are contemplating suicide, should they not be able to have access to human connection and assistance should they decide, after careful consideration and professional intervention/assessment, that they no longer wish to live? Otherwise we're essentially saying that you must be alone from X point forward because we are only going to offer the option for human connection and assistance if you stay behind X. The moment you earnestly pick path Y, you resign yourself to isolation.

I think they should have a human connection and that connection should be doing everything in their power to stop them from killing themselves. If they don't, I wouldn't consider it a meaningful connection anyway.

If that is a scary route for someone to take, then good, I want suicide to have more hurdles, not less.

If someone is ready to kill themselves, it seems to me any minor comfort you could offer during the process is pretty meaningless overall unless it is in an attempt to convince them otherwise.

Then I don't think you warrant someone else's assistance in the matter.

No person, institution or organization has the right to decide if a person can or cannot commit suicide, assisted or otherwise.
If any person, institution or organization tries to enforce their views on the subject... they have an ulterior motive.

Oops, excuse me Mr. Elephant in the room.

This post was edited by Ghot on Jan 29 2023 06:42pm