Quote (El1te @ Jun 7 2023 06:52pm)

genocide and ethnic cleansing are not the same thing, to say that ethnic cleansing is genocide is to have contempt for the victims of genocide

https://borgenproject.org/difference-ethnic-cleansing-and-genocide/

Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Jun 7 2023 10:55am)

Saying that Ukrainian is an ethnic group and not a nationality is contempt for victims of intelligence.

Quote (El1te @ Jun 7 2023 06:58pm)

I never said that. The actions you described were examples of ethnic cleansing, not genocide.

Quote (El1te @ Jun 7 2023 12:58pm)

I never said that. The actions you described were examples of ethnic cleansing, not genocide.

Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Jun 7 2023 11:06am)

What? By definition from your own link provided

Genocide,
Killing members of the group;
1. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
4. Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.”

Quote

The intent is the most difficult element to determine. To constitute genocide, there must be a proven intent on the part of perpetrators to physically destroy a national, ethnical, racial or religious group. Cultural destruction does not suffice, nor does an intention to simply disperse a group. It is this special intent, or dolus specialis, that makes the crime of genocide so unique. In addition, case law has associated intent with the existence of a State or organizational plan or policy, even if the definition of genocide in international law does not include that element.

Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ Jun 7 2023 11:10am)

Ethnic cleansing is a type of genocide.

Quote (El1te @ Jun 7 2023 07:11pm)

And Russia is guilty of none of those.

Read further: https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml

Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Jun 7 2023 07:48pm)

No it is a thing. Not sure I'm on your level of nihilism but ideas and morals exist to different extents. It's not edgy to be amoral, it's a sign of poor upbringing or psychological irregularity.

It's about removing Ukrainians as a people. Not just about killing individual Ukrainians.
You don't have to use concentration camps to commit genocide.
You could for example:
Invade another country. Cause massive immigration of women and children. Removing women from the men unsurprisingly has a major effect on future demographics.
The children leaving may never return and that again has an affect on future population.
Attack civilian infrastructures, particularly energy infrastructure during winter.
You could forcibly remove children from that country which has a major impact on that countries future demographic and ability to replenish its population.
By invading that country you are irreparably damaging its infrastructure, economy, agricultural production.

It all leads back to the false narrative as to why this war started.
Russia already controlled Crimea and Sevastopol. The US or NATO did not respond harshly in 2014.
The threat to Russia was never NATO. The threat was to Putins regimes, not from NATO but from democratic Ukraine.

If he can't remove democracy from all of Ukraine, he will settle for removing part of Ukraine from democracy and removing Ukrainians as a people.

Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Jun 7 2023 11:14am)

I disagree, I believe it is Putin's intent. As evidence by all we have witnessed in 18 months of the invasion.

Also could you explain how you think Russia is not guilty of,

1. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group
4. Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group

Quote

The intent is the most difficult element to determine. To constitute genocide, there must be a proven intent on the part of perpetrators to physically destroy a national, ethnical, racial or religious group. Cultural destruction does not suffice, nor does an intention to simply disperse a group. It is this special intent, or dolus specialis, that makes the crime of genocide so unique. In addition, case law has associated intent with the existence of a State or organizational plan or policy, even if the definition of genocide in international law does not include that element.

Quote (El1te @ Jun 7 2023 11:22am)

It is the intent, if you read the UN article.

Casualties of war, including civilian casualties, do not meet the definition of 1., and families and children who are separated by war do not meet the definition of 4.