Quote (ofthevoid @ Jun 4 2023 09:54pm)
You guys that have never took a step in Ukraine keep clinging to this false reality of what life in Ukraine was prior to 2014 when for decades they were Russia/USSR aligned and it was largely symbiotic, and some of us that have lived there, have relatives from there know this first-hand. There's a few of us here from eastern Europe, Norlander, I, maybe few others I'm missing that we know what life really was like. That's why when you and the mainstream media paint this as a binary between war or having some slave-like existence under Russia's sphere it's completely farfetched. The thing is, war in this context only makes sense if the enemy is painted as bad as it can be and if the alternative to war is literal genocide with slave masters raping your women and whatever other barbaric things you want to think of then yeah war would 100% make sense.
I rather Ukrainians have their lives, their fathers, etc. rather than some parcel of land that none of us ever been or ever would go in our lives. Even if they win, reclaiming the Donbass they will objectively be worse off in every possible way compared to lets say 2010.
Poland and Baltics are now doing much better. They don't want to go back. Ukraine and Russia are closer to each other, especially the poorer parts (which is most of the population), so obviously life is more similar, but it's a question of time. Perhaps the occupied Russophone parts of Ukraine will assimilate into Russia once it finalizes their annexation. Belarus is the dream though, yes? The language is slowly being replaced by Russian, just like good ol'fashioned imperialism.
There's also the overlooked aspect of poverty - the poor tend to not care about who governs them. For them its the same shit and they only want to get by. This political apathy is best demonstrated by Arab nations.
The war is painted binary by the media, but Russia is even more binary than the West. It is probably grey in reality when it comes to Ukrainian affairs (corruption, crackdown on Russophones, ultranationalism)... but ultimately it comes down to a nation that wants to be sovereign and dictate its own course in history. The aggressor is an authoritarian state slipping into totalitarianism. There is nothing grey about that.
This post was edited by Neptunus on Jun 4 2023 03:42pm