Quote (Thor123422 @ 19 Aug 2020 05:45)

but do you think that it's wrong to punch a Nazi? Like a literal kill all Jews and minorities Nazi?

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Aug 19 2020 02:16am)

No, it's not wrong. It's probably not particularly helpful either, but in that case, it's justifiable.

This reminds me a bit of the debate around the death penalty. Most people would be ok with an unambiguous mass murderer being executed, even liberals. Most liberals still oppose the death penalty because they know that the majority of real life cases arent as clear cut, and because they consider the potential collateral damage (innocent persons being executed) to be unacceptable in any capacity.

I think this is really what it boils down to: one of the major effects of antifa direct action is the intimidation and suppression of far-right-but-still-firmly-constitutional opinions and movements - and most proponents of antifa are perfectly fine with this type of "collateral damage", or even explicitly welcome it.

Quote (Thor123422 @ 19 Aug 2020 09:18)

So, for instance, the first night in Charlottesville in 2016 where they were having a neo-Nazi rally (literally all speakers and organizers were white supremacists, they marched chanting "Jews will not replace us", etc. etc.) would be fine to punch right?

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Aug 19 2020 02:25am)

Charlottesville was 2017.

It depends on how certain we could have been in the moment that the people marching there had genocidal intentions. "Jews will not replace us" does not necessarily imply "kill all jews", for instance. But yeah, that's a fringe case which imho is strongly leaning toward "go ahead, beat them up, they're beggin for it".

Counter question: if there was a rally of hardcore leftists who want to "kill the bourgeoisie", "kill white people" or put the "class enemy" into labor camps, would you support conservative activists punching them in the face?

Quote (Thor123422 @ Aug 19 2020 03:27am)

If they seriously wanted to kill all white people, then sure.

Class enemies, not so much. You can stop being a member of a class. You can stop oppressing people with money, and you can stop exploiting the system. I only see it as appropriate to punch people who target others for inherent features of their identity. I.e. black, gay, Jewish. Having money doesn't fall into that category. Obviously that's not exclusive. You can also punch somebody who directly threatens you.

The reason Antifa is different from the KKK is that you can stop being a neo nazi, denounce your previous views, and work to bring others out of it, and if you did all that you would probably find a lot of kinship in antifa. No amount of "not being black" is possible to similarly console a klansman.

Quote (duffman316 @ Aug 19 2020 09:21am)

Im not convinced there are many nazis in 2020 or that there numbers are substantially large enough to make it a worrisome issue.

It's the commie/anarchist rhetoric i find worrisome. People have no shame in publicly defending looting arson and damage to public property and private property. Cancelrent is also a serious thing as there are a lot if people demanding free housing https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/aug/17/us-cancel-rent-eviction-tsunami

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The rally by the Honorable Sacred Knights, a KKK group from Indiana, went off without incident after police fenced off the Montgomery Courthouse Square, placing two police lines, a barricade, and blocks of distance between the KKK and a protest crowd estimated at 600.

Police said the rally drew nine people.

“You could barely see them, and definitely couldn’t hear a word they said all day,” tweeted Mr. Fischer, who was on the scene.

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A Democratic state senator, elected school board member, multiple representatives of the NAACP, and a passel of taxpayer-supported public defenders have been charged with felonies for tearing down a Confederate statue and nearly killing a man.

You’ll remember the June 10th incident, which was widely mocked for being a play-stupid-games, win-stupid-prizes moment, when those pulling down the statue didn’t bother to see who was standing in its path. Any levity over it, however, instantly vanished when the man suffered severe brain damage from the incident.

That horrific sight triggered an investigation, resulting in the felony charges Portsmouth, Virginia Police Chief Angela Greene announced Monday. Chief Greene read off a list of names of those charged with conspiring and organizing the effort to destroy a monument.
According to his GoFundMe account, the father of two can drink liquids and “is able to feed himself semi-solid foods and is able to drink from a cup independently. Chris is showing emotion by smiling and laughing when appropriate.”

He still cannot walk or talk.

A recall of State Senator Lucas is underway, according to WAVY TV.

Quote (Santara @ Aug 19 2020 04:47am)

They came first for the fascists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a fascist...

Quote (duffman316 @ Aug 19 2020 09:21am)

Im not convinced there are many nazis in 2020 or that there numbers are substantially large enough to make it a worrisome issue.

It's the commie/anarchist rhetoric i find worrisome. People have no shame in publicly defending looting arson and damage to public property and private property. Cancelrent is also a serious thing as there are a lot if people demanding free housing https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/aug/17/us-cancel-rent-eviction-tsunami