yes. that's why all the other hens are dead now, doing so much worse than russia for example. it's not like they all became stronger, safer, more prosperous, and more independent after joining the farm, right? all dead and fed to the kids.... OH WAIT!

i love how kremlin bots have to completely ignore the history of recent decades in order to spin their propaganda about evil NATO and the terrible fate that awaits one if they ask to join, lol...

Hey, welcome back, it’s always a pleasure to have a debate with you.

Where shall we start?

I can give you an example of eg Kazakhstan or Finland. Both have peculiar and long history with Russia with their own individual ways. Although Finland did recently join NATO, they were a prime example of “toeing the line” and they did incredibly well since their independence from Sweden (although as a protectorate of the Russian Empire) and then as independent Finland once Lenin granted them independence in 1917. USSR did attack Finland in 1940 which to be honest based on available evidence and with the morals and standards of today that seems largely unprovoked. That did not stop great relations between Finland and USSR after World War 2 where both Finland and USSR (and then Russia) benefited greatly from mutual trade. Great deal of stuff Russians bought from the west was imported through Finnish ports of Kotka and Hamina.

I also believe Kazakhstan is a prime model of understanding the geopolitics of being locked up between China and Russia with US always interested in “influencing” their internal policy. Nevertheless Kazakhs are trying to lead their own way, with distinct culture, language and traditions and transitioning into a full democracy (eg by “retiring” Nazarbayev and his clan recently). I’ve spent a lot of time working with Kazakhs in the oil industry and I really have grown to respect what they have done to their country since the dissolution of the USSR. Kazakhs are incredibly proud and nationalistic (which was exploited by eg Borat) however the managed not to degrade into nazi style ethnic cleansings like Chechens or Ukrainians did.

Baltic states did well and arguable they would have done well without NATO, just with EU-integration alone, coupled with trade with Russia and Belarus as ports of Latvia and Estonia for exports of its commodities and products.

Turkmenistan was not so lucky as it got a hilariously comical dictator. He is not particularly friendly with Russia as they do not share a border. However human rights in Turkmenistan seem to concern people less than they did in eg Libya/Iraq/Syria or wherever.

Other -stans like Uzbekistan/Tajikistan were not so lucky, but that perhaps would be another story.

/edit

See below interesting graph how several countries did in GDP PPP per capita since the dissolution of USSR. The best improvement seems to be for Belarus which was arguably one of the poorest countries in the Union absolutely devastated in world war 2 in terms of population and not exactly blessed with resources so they historically relied on agri production (hence the joke about potatoes).

https://data.worldbank.org/share/widget?indicators=NY.GDP.PCAP.PP.CD&locations=RU-KZ-UA-LV-BY



This post was edited by Malopox on May 25 2023 12:36pm

news | May 25, 2023
2 SU-25 ATTACKS WERE
BROKEN DOWN BY THE NATIONAL
GUARD IN THE ZAPORIZK
DIRECTION
NATIONAL GUARD OF UKRAINE
SOUTHERN OPERATIONAL-TERRITORIAL ASSOCIATION

There are a couple of books relating to the Cuban crisis where it is outlined that the US attacked a Russian sub, the captain was going to launch but he was countermanded by the military attache. So maybe not MAD, but Russia was moments from launching a nuclear missile at america, during that crisis, which is likely to have resulted in a nuclear response. There were several close calls down through the years, from several countries. The India Pakistan one being the most memorable of course. Thank god for America stopping that (and they did stop it). Pakistan is not looking too safe these days though.

This post was edited by ferdia on May 25 2023 12:34pm

daaaaaamn

The whole point of doggedly holding those towns was to inflict casualties while preparing their offensive (which appears to have been highly successful). Seeing as they haven't thrown their counterpunch yet, your assessment is ridiculously premature.

Take care you a talking to the military expert who predicted that Ukraine would fall in 3 months.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bakhmut => NATO estimate: One-fifth of the number of Russian casualties

so your "argument" shifted from 'NATO membership means certain death' (chicken is killed after it can't lay eggs any longer) to 'economically, countries can develop without NATO' (no shit, as it isn't an ECONOMIC alliance, but a military one), lol?

guess that's what happens when your analogy gets completely rekt by history. also, you might want to compare standards of living in former warsaw pact NATO members (like poland and czechia for example) with those of belarus and russia for example, if you want to have an actually meaningful indicator of what it means to ally with the west vs. what it means to be in the russian sphere of influence.

Nope, the orcs won the battle of Soledar and Bakhmut while Ukraine is saying they still hold Bakhmut and Western MSM are all spreading that propaganda. *Guffaw*

BTW

Their counteroffensive will need to break through well prepared defenses while a whole lot of artillery / missile systems are waiting and drones are constantly monitoring the situation.

Looks like there are a couple hundred thousand Russian forces that were mobilized and haven't been committed yet meaning they're by now fully trained reserves and no doubt will be rushed in when needed.




And that's 100% correct, Ukraine is beaten and only kept in the fight because of massive Western support. And still Ukraine can't win...

your cheerleading is pretty pathetic.