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Oct 16 2019 01:08pm
Quote (ofthevoid @ 16 Oct 2019 15:19)
They absolutely do and Kurds are in the right here. In an ideal world Turkey would be willing to grant them their sovereignty in the east and we can all sing kumbaya. But we don't live in the world, we live in a world where Turkey has an army of 600,000 soldiers. We live in a world where they are in one of the most strategic places in the world. We live in a world where we have nukes against Russia in Turkey. We live in a world that if we fucked with Turkey they could weaponize immigration and really fuck Europe. We live in a world where if we lose Turkey as a geopolitical friend to Iran or Russia that we would be much weaker in the region.

So while i feel for the Kurds you can't simply ignore all of those realities and ramifications. The world is really complex, you can't have absolutist positions on right and wrong.


Good post!

I would add one caveat, however: if things continue at this rate, there will come the moment when we will be weaker in the region with Turkey as an """ally""" and NATO member than without them.
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Oct 16 2019 01:39pm
The solution is to send a hit squad to Turkey to assassinate their government and appoint a regent to oversee the parceling off of Kurdistan.

These things are so apparent when you think of them through the lens of reality. The reason we haven't done it, and why there is so much obfuscation, is that our leaders are complete and utter pussies.
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Oct 16 2019 02:26pm
Quote (ofthevoid @ 16 Oct 2019 15:19)
They absolutely do and Kurds are in the right here. In an ideal world Turkey would be willing to grant them their sovereignty in the east and we can all sing kumbaya. But we don't live in the world, we live in a world where Turkey has an army of 600,000 soldiers. We live in a world where they are in one of the most strategic places in the world. We live in a world where we have nukes against Russia in Turkey. We live in a world that if we fucked with Turkey they could weaponize immigration and really fuck Europe. We live in a world where if we lose Turkey as a geopolitical friend to Iran or Russia that we would be much weaker in the region.

So while i feel for the Kurds you can't simply ignore all of those realities and ramifications. The world is really complex, you can't have absolutist positions on right and wrong.


not a single one of those things justifies the way trump went about this whole affair. if anything, it makes the blunder worse since the mixed signaling (privately and officially, on the ground and politically) put turkey in a spot where their dictator basically has no option but to follow through with this offensive (assuming russia won't oppose them in a significant manner) to prevent losing his domestic support, while at the same time facing massive international backlash and concrete economic sanctions.
so if you want to pivot to the 'it was a difficult decision, but it had to be made' narrative, you're just putting a spotlight on the complete incompetence with which this was handled, screwing over BOTH sides in the process. playing the realpolitik angle would maybe make some sense if he simply said 'well fuck the kurds, they didn't help us in normandy, turkey is just too important to lose. so go ahead, daddy erdogan, do what you want with our only reliable ally in the region that helped us defeat ISIS despite massive casualties', but to first invite him to slaughter them, and then punish him for doing so, exposes how badly thought out and executed this was. your average fifth grader is better at diplomacy than that...

and again, it's a ridiculously flawed premise to begin with, there was not actually any urgency to withdraw the troops immediately (no, getting yelled at by a dictator over the phone doesn't count) before negotiating a political solution for the kurdish question, something trump hasn't made any effort at, or even seriously considered at any point.
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Oct 16 2019 03:20pm
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Dear Mr. President,

Let's work out a deal! You don't want to be responsible for the slaughtering of thousands of people, and I don't want to be responsible for destroying the Turkish economy - and I will. I've already given you a little sample with respect to Pastor Brunson.

I have worked hard to solve some of your problems. Don't let the world down. You can make a great deal. General Mazloum is willing to negotiate with you, and he is willing to make concessions that they would never have made in the past. I am confidentially enclosing a copy of his letter to me, just received.

History will look upon you favorably if you get this done the right and humane way. It will look upon you forever as the devil if good things don't happen. Don't be a tough guy. Don't be a fool!

I will call you later. Sincerely,
Donald Trump


....what the fuck.

This post was edited by Arsenic_Touch on Oct 16 2019 03:24pm
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Oct 16 2019 03:21pm
Quote (Arsenic_Touch @ Oct 16 2019 11:20pm)
....what the fuck.


Please tell me that's not real.
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Oct 16 2019 03:24pm
that is a new low
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Oct 16 2019 03:29pm
Don't be a meanie face.
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Oct 16 2019 03:37pm
Quote (Arsenic_Touch @ 16 Oct 2019 23:20)
....what the fuck.


the onion strikes again...
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