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May 23 2023 05:29am
Quote (Ironfister @ May 23 2023 12:18pm)
I would say 30k Ukrainians for 100k Wagner boys.
Initially it was 1:5 as NATO report states, but as city was getting more damaged, the defense was little weaker and it shifted towards 1:3 I think.

We will never know for sure. Of course Russian trolls says they are loosing nearly no soldiers, but I trust NATO/UK/USA data more, because it actually means political responsibility if they lie.


"political responsibility if they lie". I hope you are not suggesting that in peacetime, nevermind in war time, that there are consequences for politicians lying ? With brevity, this is war time, everyone is lying (both sides).

In terms of losses on either side, I have no idea, but would tend to agree with you re: western data, noting its known quantity.

This post was edited by ferdia on May 23 2023 05:29am
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May 23 2023 05:31am
Quote (Ironfister @ 23 May 2023 13:18)
I would say 30k Ukrainians for 100k Wagner boys.
Initially it was 1:5 as NATO report states, but as city was getting more damaged, the defense was little weaker and it shifted towards 1:3 I think.

We will never know for sure. Of course Russian trolls says they are loosing nearly no soldiers, but I trust NATO/UK/USA data more, because it actually means political responsibility if they lie.


CNN quotes “anonymous source” which is as good of an opinion as mine or yours at this point.

I saw this article earlier that said 20k to 100k without citing their sources properly:

https://www.dw.com/en/ukraine-updates-wagner-to-leave-bakhmut-by-june-1/a-65693418

US estimates whole Wagner altogether was 50k at peak in Ukraine (all in Bakhmut?). . There was no MoD troops In Bakhumut.

https://www.defenseone.com/threats/2022/12/the-d-brief-december-22-2022/381241/

Quote
Wagner has an estimated 50,000 personnel inside Ukraine, Kirby said; that includes 10,000 contractors and 40,000 convicts recruited from prisons


Unless they all died twice and then got replenished again I personally doubt 100k died in Bakhmut alone.

I assume UA casualties are 20k at the least since WH cites it. Undoubtedly WH would not exaggerate UA casualties for the sake of morale.

This post was edited by Malopox on May 23 2023 05:47am
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May 23 2023 05:34am
Quote (ownyaah @ May 22 2023 06:56pm)
if i had to guess bakhmut was prob 1:1-1.5 in russian favour (because of artillery)

Thing is, ukraine was losing their army and russia their criminals/rapists/murderers. Win-win for kremlin by the way.


Wagner is said to have recruited 40k from the prisons, whereas Bakhmut casualties are said to approach 100k.

Artillery on well-entrenched defenders is probably the only way they are inflicting casualties at all. If Ukraine thought it was on the losing end of that calculus, I doubt they would try so hard to keep doing it.
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May 23 2023 05:35am
Quote (Ironfister @ May 23 2023 06:18am)
I would say 30k Ukrainians for 100k Wagner boys.
Initially it was 1:5 as NATO report states, but as city was getting more damaged, the defense was little weaker and it shifted towards 1:3 I think.

We will never know for sure. Of course Russian trolls says they are loosing nearly no soldiers, but I trust NATO/UK/USA data more, because it actually means political responsibility if they lie.


Even if the numbers are untrustworthy, RU is doing terrible. Their great war machine nation being stalled out by proxy war tactics. Imagine they have to war a real foe head on, not the hill billy ghetto gains next door. Hoping smarter minds prevail and negotiating can begin. How many Wagner prisoners are there to kill off?
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May 23 2023 05:46am
Quote (RedFromWinter @ May 23 2023 12:35pm)
Even if the numbers are untrustworthy, RU is doing terrible. Their great war machine nation being stalled out by proxy war tactics. Imagine they have to war a real foe head on, not the hill billy ghetto gains next door. Hoping smarter minds prevail and negotiating can begin. How many Wagner prisoners are there to kill off?


"their great war machine nation" sir, there is only 1 great war machine nation on this planet, and its not Russia.
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May 23 2023 05:54am
Quote (ferdia @ May 23 2023 06:46am)
"their great war machine nation" sir, there is only 1 great war machine nation on this planet, and its not Russia.


US#1
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May 23 2023 05:57am
Watching people buying western propaganda is always good for a laugh.
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May 23 2023 06:06am
American orcs be like
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May 23 2023 06:11am
On review of the above, I idly wonder if double standards is about to come into play.
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May 23 2023 06:13am
Quote (Vastet @ 23 May 2023 13:57)
Watching people buying western propaganda is always good for a laugh.


So, it's 11 villages by now for the Free Russians?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Press_Freedom_Index
Russia: 164/180 rofl
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