d2jsp
Log InRegister
d2jsp Forums > Off-Topic > General Chat > Political & Religious Debate > Russia / Ukraine
Prev1274527462747274827495001Next
Closed New Topic New Poll
Member
Posts: 50,710
Joined: Jan 20 2010
Gold: 4,861.00
May 20 2023 03:53pm
Bakhmut didn't fall today. Its been falling for months straight at a glacial pace. That momentum is still all going in one direction, however slow it may be, and historically looking at other conflicts like Afghanistan / Iraq / Syria / etc, it only has downhill to go from here. I mean, Assad just took a victory lap at the Arab League while Russia took a victory lap in Bakhmut. What's the definition of madness, doing a proxy war how many times in a row and expecting a different result?
Member
Posts: 16,411
Joined: Apr 9 2007
Gold: 12,059.17
May 20 2023 04:03pm
Quote (Malopox @ 20 May 2023 18:05)
It’s an American Ambassador to Russia - Burns - saying these things internally over a diplomatic cable to Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice, you simpleton. He is reporting back to base how things are going and his best understanding how things are going to work out if US continues what they are doing. Given that the guy is head of CIA now - I think he is smarter and more connected than all of us on this forum combined.

I know you hate Russia, but please - read things if you want to reply.

.


If you actually read, you will see that most of the note is a quote from Russian officials, in example:
"Lavrov emphasized that Russia was convinced that
enlargement was not based on security reasons, but was a
legacy of the Cold War"
Ambasador is not the president, not the Foreign minister. He basically transfers received messages back to HQ, decision center.
It doesnt matter who this guy is now, his job at the time was to be an ambasador.
Clearly Lavrov (Russian foreign minister, still in office) was lying because they attacked Ukraine later, so there were valid security reasons to join nato.
Russians fooled the Western people, lied because they needed to have Ukraine outside of nato so that they could eat them oneday.
Member
Posts: 20,044
Joined: Apr 13 2016
Gold: 32,397.50
May 20 2023 04:17pm
Quote (Goomshill @ May 20 2023 10:53pm)
Bakhmut didn't fall today. Its been falling for months straight at a glacial pace. That momentum is still all going in one direction, however slow it may be, and historically looking at other conflicts like Afghanistan / Iraq / Syria / etc, it only has downhill to go from here. I mean, Assad just took a victory lap at the Arab League while Russia took a victory lap in Bakhmut. What's the definition of madness, doing a proxy war how many times in a row and expecting a different result?


Syria is essentially a failed state and Bakhmut is a pile of rubble that cost thousands of Russians their lives.

Objectively a "victory" is a bit of a stretch.
Member
Posts: 39,633
Joined: Nov 16 2005
Gold: 13.37
May 20 2023 04:24pm
Berlin was a pile of rubble and it costed millions of lives. Was it worth fighting for?
Member
Posts: 54,062
Joined: May 26 2005
Gold: 4,945.67
May 20 2023 04:25pm
Quote (Goomshill @ 20 May 2023 23:53)
Bakhmut didn't fall today. Its been falling for months straight at a glacial pace. That momentum is still all going in one direction, however slow it may be, and historically looking at other conflicts like Afghanistan / Iraq / Syria / etc, it only has downhill to go from here. I mean, Assad just took a victory lap at the Arab League while Russia took a victory lap in Bakhmut. What's the definition of madness, doing a proxy war how many times in a row and expecting a different result?


Winning a battle can totally be a strategic loss if it took too much time or resources. The history books are full of examples.
In reality, Russia's forward momentum has slowed down significantly from where it was 2 or 3 months ago.

I have no idea if the Ukrainian counteroffensive will ever materialize, or if it will be successful. Still, as of today, I would assign a higher likelihood to Russia losing territory in the coming months than to Russia ever reaching, let alone actually capturing, Kharkiv, Dnipro or Odessa.
Member
Posts: 54,062
Joined: May 26 2005
Gold: 4,945.67
May 20 2023 04:32pm
Quote (Norlander @ 21 May 2023 00:24)
Berlin was a pile of rubble and it costed millions of lives. Was it worth fighting for?


Bad comparison. The fall of Berlin gave the war in Europe a conclusive end and ushered in an era of stability and growth. And from an imperialistic/geostrategic perspective, it enshrined Soviet dominance over the Eastern half of Europe.
Member
Posts: 39,633
Joined: Nov 16 2005
Gold: 13.37
May 20 2023 04:37pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ 21 May 2023 01:32)
Bad comparison. The fall of Berlin gave the war in Europe a conclusive end and ushered in an era of stability and growth. And from an imperialistic/geostrategic perspective, it enshrined Soviet dominance over the Eastern half of Europe.


You can use any town as an example, any war
Member
Posts: 4,621
Joined: Jan 30 2021
Gold: 751.50
May 20 2023 05:53pm
Quote (Goomshill @ May 20 2023 11:53pm)
Bakhmut didn't fall today. Its been falling for months straight at a glacial pace. That momentum is still all going in one direction, however slow it may be, and historically looking at other conflicts like Afghanistan / Iraq / Syria / etc, it only has downhill to go from here. I mean, Assad just took a victory lap at the Arab League while Russia took a victory lap in Bakhmut. What's the definition of madness, doing a proxy war how many times in a row and expecting a different result?


assad took a victory lap, because he actually beat the islamic extremist uprising despite brutal sanctions and support of his opponents

i think its clear by now, that the goal of these proxy conflicts is not winning or losing, its endless war and securing geopolitical interest

the US are still robbing oil from the syrian people as we speak
Member
Posts: 39,633
Joined: Nov 16 2005
Gold: 13.37
May 20 2023 06:31pm
Quote (JohnnyMcCoy @ 21 May 2023 02:53)
assad took a victory lap, because he actually beat the islamic extremist uprising despite brutal sanctions and support of his opponents

i think its clear by now, that the goal of these proxy conflicts is not winning or losing, its endless war and securing geopolitical interest

the US are still robbing oil from the syrian people as we speak


In December 2013, Soyuzneftegaz signed a deal with the Syrian government to explore, drill, develop and produce oil and gas in Block 2 with an area of 2,977 square kilometres (1,149 sq mi) off Syria's coast. In July 2014, the deal was ratified with the Panama-registered Soyuzneftegaz East Med. In August 2017, an amendment to the contract was approved, to include Russian company East Med Amrit S.A., a sub-company of Soyuzneftegaz. Those changes in names and origins were to avoid International sanctions on dealing with the Syrian regime. However, Soyuzneftegaz could not meet its contractual agreement in Syria.

"In 2019, two Russian companies, Mercury LLC and Velada LLC, signed deals with the Syrian government to explore and develop gas and oil fields in Block 7 with an area of 9,531 square kilometres (3,680 sq mi) and Block 19 in the northeastern region, and in Block 23 with an area of 2,159 square kilometres (834 sq mi) in the region to the north of Damascus respectively. Moreover, companies such as JSC Zarubezhneft, JSC Zarubezhgeologia, STG Engineering and Technopromexport started their survey to explore land and sea energy resources in Syria, with the prospect of gas exploration in the regions of Qara and al-Bureij.

In March 2021, Russian company, Capital Limited, and Syrian government represented by the Ministry of Oil and Mineral Reserves, signed a contract to grant the Russian company the exclusive rights to explore natural oil and gas in Block 1 in the eastern Mediterranean with an area of 2,250 square kilometres (870 sq mi) off the coast of Tartus."

Syrian people
Member
Posts: 23,947
Joined: Jul 15 2008
Gold: 122,361.69
May 20 2023 07:19pm
a lot of rumours going around about Zaluzhnyi

Go Back To Political & Religious Debate Topic List
Prev1274527462747274827495001Next
Closed New Topic New Poll