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May 16 2023 12:52pm
Quote (Prox1m1ty @ May 13 2023 11:26pm)
No content as usual.

Your opinion on Russia shooting down at least 2 of its own aircraft? Or what about the Russian withdrawal from bakhmut?
Surprised we aren't see a map of NATO expansion vs Russian retreat at this point.

When even the shills are silent, you know its going very, very wrong for Russia's military. #3months


No content? I replied to a trash post but you know that.

Russians shooting down their own planes? Friendly fire happens in every conflict. Want data on that? It's only a quick google search away, LMK

And I checked your Bakhmut claim, the map looks pretty red. Looks like the only shill here is YOU, no objectivity no nothing, only a lot of REEEEEEE as per usual, lol

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May 16 2023 12:53pm
Quote (ofthevoid @ May 16 2023 11:35am)
Well for one, it has something to do with the placement of intermediate ballistic missiles. Having nukes that can land on Russia in seconds launched from countries on Russia's doorsetp is a huge advantage as you can essentially destroy them before they can fire off theirs off on us.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermediate-Range_Nuclear_Forces_Treaty

But that's beside the point, the point is the expansion was a voiced concern. Just because you and others like you don't like the explanation and at every turn minimize it doesn't change that it's a concern. We deemed their missiles in Cuba a concern and acted but you don't want to offer the same fair courtesy and are nitpicking them citing this as a concern with missiles systems able to reach Moscow on their borders as nothing to worry about.

It's NATO expansion in general. Ukraine was the red line though, not sure what else you need answered here?


we already had NATO countries on their border lol. the Ukraine = nukes too close argument is so silly it hurts.

and Cuba? we're using nuclear proximity crises that predate the civil right's movement now? LOL
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May 16 2023 12:57pm
Quote (ofthevoid @ May 16 2023 05:57pm)
Your English comprehension seems very limited as i'm answering your question and yet it's still failing to register. Eastern expansion towards Russia was and is a concern to them, this is something that has been a concern since the Soviet Union imploded, acknowledged in the west, and hence we have the "Not one inch" comment coming out of it. If it was a concern then that we acknowledged it, why is it all the sudden been scrubbed as a concern in modern day when they've been repeating it for 20+ years? All expansion was a concern but Ukraine was the red line. Hopefully, this registers, as i'm running out of ways to frame something so simple.

Bold is nonsense. There are NATO bases and troops in Poland, Romania, Czech, etc that precede 2014, no idea what you're talking about.


Bold is nonsense? Are you sure about that? What is your source?
Check the bold in this paragraph below.

Still waiting for an explanation of the tangible threat to Russia from NATO expansion in Ukraine. Is it missiles? No. Subs can be well within range of St Petersburg or Moscow at anytime as a deterrent.
Or is the tangible threat to Russia's regime, not NATO but a democratic Ukraine on its doorstep. Refer also the internet blackout and repressive crackdown in Kazakhstan after the removal of the fuel cap. Refer to the Russian involvement in Belarus propping up its dictator. Insert Georgia, insert Karabag, insert Transnistria.

This image of Russia as a victim of NATO expansion is completely false and is an argument completely built on sand.


Source - https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/115204.htm#:~:text=Before%20Russia's%20illegal%20annexation%20of,eastern%20part%20of%20the%20Alliance.

Myth 3: NATO is aggressive and a threat to Russia
Fact: NATO is a defensive alliance, whose purpose is to protect our members. Our official policy is that "NATO does not seek confrontation and poses no threat to the Russian Federation" NATO didn't invade Georgia; NATO didn't invade Ukraine. Russia did.

NATO has reached out to Russia consistently and publicly over the past 30 years. We worked together on issues ranging from counter-narcotics and counter-terrorism to submarine rescue and civil emergency planning – even during periods of NATO enlargement. However, in 2014, in response to Russia's aggressive actions against Ukraine, NATO suspended practical cooperation with Russia. We do not seek confrontation, but we can't ignore Russia breaking international rules, undermining our stability and security.

In response to Russia's use of military force against Ukraine, NATO deployed four multinational battlegroups to the Baltic States and Poland in 2016. Before Russia's illegal annexation of Crimea, there were no Allied troops in the eastern part of the Alliance.

In response to Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine in 2022, NATO has significantly reinforced its deterrence and defence posture, including with four new battlegroups in the eastern part of the Alliance. At the NATO Summit in Madrid, Allies agreed that Russia is the most significant and direct threat to their security and to peace and stability in the Euro-Atlantic area. Allies also agreed to further strengthen NATO's posture. However, Allies remain willing to keep open channels of communication with Moscow to manage and mitigate risks, prevent escalation and increase transparency.

This post was edited by Prox1m1ty on May 16 2023 01:01pm
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May 16 2023 12:57pm
Quote (thesnipa @ May 16 2023 02:53pm)
we already had NATO countries on their border lol. the Ukraine = nukes too close argument is so silly it hurts.

and Cuba? we're using nuclear proximity crises that predate the civil right's movement now? LOL


That was pertaining to the overall creep eastward not just Ukraine specifically, but thanks for at least being honest and acknowledging we have missiles on their border.

NATO being a defensive alliance towards Russia or China or Serbia or fill in the blank country that doesn't behave the way we want them to is the equivalent of having someone with a glock 12 inches from your face for "defensive" reasons of course.
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May 16 2023 01:01pm
Quote (Prox1m1ty @ 16 May 2023 21:12)
Kazakhstan is hardly a shining beacon of democracy and completely under Russias thumb.

Georgia, Transnistria, Ukraine before maidan, Kazakhstan, Checnya, Dagestan, Armenia.

So Russia is entitled to install and prop up friendly governments. And that's fine. But UkrIne choosing itself to join NATO is a red line, and that justifies invading Ukraine?
It is skewed from reality to believe the US is subverting Russia into a war in Ukraine and Russia is completely not culpable for its own actions.


Chechnya and Dagestan are as independent as... I won't point fingers ©
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May 16 2023 01:04pm
Quote (Norlander @ May 16 2023 08:01pm)
Chechnya and Dagestan are as independent as... I won't point fingers ©


Ohh personal. Must be touching a nerve comrade :D

If the RF collapses, hoping for an Iraq style implosion is wishful thinking!
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May 16 2023 01:05pm
Quote (ofthevoid @ May 16 2023 01:57pm)
That was pertaining to the overall creep eastward not just Ukraine specifically, but thanks for at least being honest and acknowledging we have missiles on their border.

NATO being a defensive alliance towards Russia or China or Serbia or fill in the blank country that doesn't behave the way we want them to is the equivalent of having someone with a glock 12 inches from your face for "defensive" reasons of course.


as we should, ive said all along russia is a hobo with a knife. economy the size of italy and weapons arsenal second only really to the US, maybe 3rd behind China by this point at least in tech and perhaps quantity.

when a hobo pulls out a knife and starts acting erratically you circle them with guns drawn, you don't fire but you don't let them be either.

"doesnt behave the way we want them to" is such a pathetic way to describe American hegemony, and it's the splintered crutch you fools have been leaning on for years. we're talking about the state sanctioned organ farmers, the intellectual property theft world champs, the journalist suiciders, the supporters of literally every brutal dictatorship on the globe, etc.

"but, but, but, but, iraq. PLEASE look at iraq". its just so pathetic it hurts. The USA regularly overstep our bounds, we regularly act in a hypocritical way, etc. But we're hypocritical because our stated aims are supposed to be moral, their stated aims are immoral. and given the way our world is headed in the next few hundred years you better hope like i do that we win, or your great grandkids will be slurping down gruel and taking pennies extra per month to have a state sanctioned vasectomy.

imagine simping for the worst possible world leaders given the macro lens. their govts, their ideology, etc need to be tossed in a fire and destroyed. and all you can do is cry about missile proximity, aka just about the only thing that may get them to play ball and cede.
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May 16 2023 01:05pm
Quote (Prox1m1ty @ May 16 2023 02:57pm)
Bold is nonsense? Are you sure about that? What is your source?
Check the bold in this paragraph.
Source - https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/115204.htm#:~:text=Before%20Russia's%20illegal%20annexation%20of,eastern%20part%20of%20the%20Alliance.

Myth 3: NATO is aggressive and a threat to Russia
Fact: NATO is a defensive alliance, whose purpose is to protect our members. Our official policy is that "NATO does not seek confrontation and poses no threat to the Russian Federation" NATO didn't invade Georgia; NATO didn't invade Ukraine. Russia did.

NATO has reached out to Russia consistently and publicly over the past 30 years. We worked together on issues ranging from counter-narcotics and counter-terrorism to submarine rescue and civil emergency planning – even during periods of NATO enlargement. However, in 2014, in response to Russia's aggressive actions against Ukraine, NATO suspended practical cooperation with Russia. We do not seek confrontation, but we can't ignore Russia breaking international rules, undermining our stability and security.

In response to Russia's use of military force against Ukraine, NATO deployed four multinational battlegroups to the Baltic States and Poland in 2016. Before Russia's illegal annexation of Crimea, there were no Allied troops in the eastern part of the Alliance.

In response to Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine in 2022, NATO has significantly reinforced its deterrence and defence posture, including with four new battlegroups in the eastern part of the Alliance. At the NATO Summit in Madrid, Allies agreed that Russia is the most significant and direct threat to their security and to peace and stability in the Euro-Atlantic area. Allies also agreed to further strengthen NATO's posture. However, Allies remain willing to keep open channels of communication with Moscow to manage and mitigate risks, prevent escalation and increase transparency.


lmfao you really linked NATO's official website as proof :rofl:

Again you can easily google simple facts. This notion that the military build up happened in central and eastern Ukraine only after 2014 is nonsense. For example quick google search on a single country.


Quote
In February 2010, the Supreme Council of National Defence decided for Romania to participate in the development of the American anti-missile defense component, at the invitation of President Barack Obama. A year later, in September 2011, the former aviation base was selected to host SM-3 interceptor missiles.[4][5]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deveselu_Military_Base
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May 16 2023 01:05pm
Quote (ofthevoid @ May 16 2023 07:57pm)
That was pertaining to the overall creep eastward not just Ukraine specifically, but thanks for at least being honest and acknowledging we have missiles on their border.

NATO being a defensive alliance towards Russia or China or Serbia or fill in the blank country that doesn't behave the way we want them to is the equivalent of having someone with a glock 12 inches from your face for "defensive" reasons of course.


Russia have iskander missiles in Kaliningrad. Should NATO invade Kaliningrad? And would that be justified?
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May 16 2023 01:06pm
Quote (Prox1m1ty @ 16 May 2023 22:04)
Ohh personal. Must be touching a nerve comrade :D

If the RF collapses, hoping for an Iraq style implosion is wishful thinking!


That was a Borat joke about Kazakhstan you mentioned with these two, but now it's even more funny :)
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