In my view:

What needs to be asked of everyone is "How will this war end" and "What will the political and geographical as well as the geo-political position/makeup/shape of Ukraine look like at that time". As I mentioned (dozens of pages ago) it is Putin, and not the West, who will ultimately decide when the war will end, on the basis that he is the Invader and the West will not send troops. This is a different scenario from what many people in this topic may be either used to or expect.

The military support being provided by the West to Ukraine in the last number of years and currently, is having a profound impact on the countries ability to rebuff Russia for a time. As a consequence of this, and other factors, Russia has not steamrolled Ukraine and instead Russia has been halted. To my mind the West will continue to ship tonne's of weaponry to the Ukraine to support their defense and it may even increase exponentially.

As alluded to, this means that Russia will not be able to win the war with gloves off and with a light touch, and instead they will have to get dirty on the basis they lack the ability to otherwise "win". It is the extent at which Russia will go to achieve its goals (and I honestly do not see anything off the table for Putin), which causes dismay. To my mind Russia will not retreat and will only stop when they have achieved their goals, noting Putin sees this war as one which he cannot back away from noting the alternative in his view is an existential threat. Their main goal to my mind is that Ukraine will be independent from EU/Nato and not form part of Nato/EU. I would imagine ideally Putin would want to replace the current government with a Puppet one but that this is unlikely to be achieved.

Noting that both sides are very far apart in terms of "What will the political and geographical as well as the geo-political position/makeup/shape of Ukraine look like at that time" the expectation is that the war will drag on for months and months noting both sides are basically entrenched at this point and far apart from any form of agreement / resolution. There are alot of morality questions associated with the actions on both sides. My view is the West is threading a very fine line and is doing the best it can to prevent escalation of the war outside of Ukraine while at the same time supporting Ukraine in ways the Russia can swallow, but will force Putin to look more like a deranged lunatic, via his responses (and he will be forced to respond).

This post was edited by ferdia on Mar 25 2022 07:27am

Lol

Lol, clownshoes diplomacy is on display.

The US has no need for Ukraine, and arguably a greater need for Russia. And it's the Ukrainians defending themselves, we simply give them some of the many weapons they use to do so.

So the USA is doing charity work against their own interest... sure is some serious stuff you are paddling
Arming Ukraine further = prolonging the war... that is a serious and actually not clown fact you should wrap your head around before you state that 'there is no other way to take being pro Russia than being pro war'.

This post was edited by Lebanon961 on Mar 25 2022 07:35am

The US will not give up Ukraine and neither will Russia. Ergo, the war will continue until either America or Russia relents (or until Ukraine comes to an agreement with Russia).

This post was edited by ferdia on Mar 25 2022 07:37am

US already gave up Ukraine when they decided not to intervene or impose no-fly zones or arm Ukraine with conventional weapons that can offer them a competitive edge (as opposed to guerilla use weapons).
Biden himself said Russia will pay a price regardless of what advances Russia make in the field.
They know Ukraine will fall to Russia, they just using Ukrainian as pawns to punish Russia for this move.

I would position that the US has not given up on Ukraine but rather are going about it differently from usual, noting the situation is unusual. everything else i agree with.

Except there is. Ukraine should defend itself, the West should stay out of it instead of pumping all kinds of weapons into the country and 1) cause Ukraine to be levelled and 2) risk all out (nuclear) war.

Ezd

And? I'm not arguing that point either way.

Where in anything I posted regarding this do I indicate that it was inevitable that the rate of home prices would double?