Quote (ampoo @ 17 Aug 2017 23:50)
nice job putting a nazi comparison in there again, as if a person like lee as a much respected general is even somewhat close to that
looks like you have swallowed too much of the propaganda in german media recently, the glorious north fighting the evil slavery supporters in the south and everything about them needs to be banned, burned and destroyed
simplistic, uninformed and outright stupid, there was so much more to this conflict
you have exposed yourself again, antifa guys like you are the new book burners
of course it would too much for the deranged left with their safe spaces and trigger warnings to RESPECT history and keep this statue with an information board about the man
its exactly the kind of stuff to remain in front of state buildings
whats next on your agenda fender? maybe tear down bismarck memorials in germany? i wouldnt be suprised
what a brainless and dishonest misrepresentation of my argument. i specifically stated that the history SHOULD be taught in full context - put the historically significant and artistically valuable statues in museums and ADD the necessary context to them, i fully agree with that. teach the full story in history books.
the countless monuments, however, just glorifying those traitors and slavery proponents, are for the most part not precious historical artefacts, but deliberate provocations erected in the 20th century during times of racial tensions to remind blacks of what the south is all about. not surprised you would defend that though...
also, there were plenty "much respected" generals in the wehrmacht - but we didn't, decades after the war, build monuments to glorify them - particularly in areas where a significant portion of the population suffered under what they fought for. i'm aware you probably lack the empathy to understand that, but it still has to be said.
i wonder where the outcry of bigots like you about "respecting history" was when us soldiers tore down saddam hussein statues in iraq...
Quote (IceMage @ 17 Aug 2017 23:54)
Well, men on the side of the union had plenty of reason to hate the general of their defeated enemy. Why wasn't Lee thrown to the wolves in American society at the time? Perhaps because they didn't view the confederacy(and men who fought for the confederacy) as harshly as some on this forum do.
The 3rd Reich comparison falls flat. The Holocaust, Hitler, and Nazism was a national disgrace for Germany. Germany wasn't founded with the idea that genocide of the Jews was acceptable. Slavery is an institution that was accepted when the United States was founded, it's just not the same thing as genocide of the Jews.
The quote I posted of Eiseinhower's remarks about Lee seem to fit here. It's just not as cut and dry as "he should've joined the union, he's a traitor derp". Historical context matters. If the union had the same attitude as some on this forum in the aftermath of the war I'm not sure what the country would look like today.
With all due respect, a foreigner's view on which historical monuments we should have up is irrelevant to me.
ah so almost a third of the nation taking up arms to protect slavery wasn't a national disgrace...
but sure, it's never exactly the same (just like poo's outright retarded roman empire analogy, that you strangely were completely ok with, even though he was talking about "destroying remains" when the discussion was about taking down statues dedicated to individuals who fought for the wrong things), feel free to find more fitting comparisons. but the idea behind it, to glorify someone who has been on the wrong side of history and fought for something we now consider atrocious, is still the same...
also, nobody claimed it's "cut and dry" - i just said that he DID have the offer to lead the union army, that he DID have a choice, and that in fact significant parts of northern virginia and his own family sided with the union. so your little, "a man who was forced to defend his home state" narrative falls flat...
This post was edited by fender on Aug 17 2017 07:09pm