Quote (Ironfister @ 8 May 2023 20:24)

You say that Germany and France opposed, but other countries like UK, Australia joined it.
Germany and France were the countries who denied Ukraine membership into NATO, because they wanted to stay friendly with Putin.
Germany only spends like 1,2% gdp on their military, while according to NATO guidelines they should spend 2%.
Germans made their economy dependant on Russian gas pipeline.
France politicans are relatively friendly to Russians, with mrs Pen getting financing from Russian banks. Mr Macron is the only exception in french politics, who is not pro-russia.
So these countries were not the backbone of NATO, they didnt think their politics correctly in a strategic scale.
They mostly played their local games, focused on short term goals of their own country, instead of thinking about the whole NATO alliance.
I dont really like Trump, but there is one thing he said right, that Germany and France were not doing enough in NATO, and relying on America for European safety too much.
This has somewhat changed with Ukraine war, and its better now, but we are talking about past here.

Quote (Malopox @ May 8 2023 07:44pm)

OK 1:0 my way it seems, you started dodging. I see you got caught and do not deny that a poor middle eastern nation got bombed for the fuck of it to entertain some bored rednecks.

You have now have tried to scrape the barrel of arguments to make Germany and France - the founding members of the European Union - which I'm sure you are proud to be - look bad. I'm not sure why you want to do that as Germany has generously donated billions yearly to make your country improve its infrastructure and institutions over literally decades. https://cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/images/normal/18794.jpeg. Data for 2022-2023 looks similar if you look up recent EU budgets. Dont bite the hand that feeds.

NATO block including Germany and France did join for Aghanistan which was arguably better prepared and it was clear what the goals and strategy of the alliance are. Germany and France did not want to join in on a dangerous and reckless war waged by UK/US/Australia and of all the countries - Poland.

Remember Sykes-Picot and Callouste Gulbenkian. Middle East does. https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2016/5/16/iraq-sykes-picot-and-mr-five-percent

Quote (Ironfister @ May 8 2023 07:24pm)

You say that Germany and France opposed, but other countries like UK, Australia joined it.
Germany and France were the countries who denied Ukraine membership into NATO, because they wanted to stay friendly with Putin.
Germany only spends like 1,2% gdp on their military, while according to NATO guidelines they should spend 2%.
Germans made their economy dependant on Russian gas pipeline.
France politicans are relatively friendly to Russians, with mrs Pen getting financing from Russian banks. Mr Macron is the only exception in french politics, who is not pro-russia.
So these countries were not the backbone of NATO, they didnt think their politics correctly in a strategic scale.
They mostly played their local games, focused on short term goals of their own country, instead of thinking about the whole NATO alliance.
I dont really like Trump, but there is one thing he said right, that Germany and France were not doing enough in NATO, and relying on America for European safety too much.
This has somewhat changed with Ukraine war, and its better now, but we are talking about past here.

Quote (Ironfister @ 8 May 2023 20:24)

You say that Germany and France opposed, but other countries like UK, Australia joined it.
Germany and France were the countries who denied Ukraine membership into NATO, because they wanted to stay friendly with Putin.
Germany only spends like 1,2% gdp on their military, while according to NATO guidelines they should spend 2%.
Germans made their economy dependant on Russian gas pipeline.
France politicans are relatively friendly to Russians, with mrs Pen getting financing from Russian banks. Mr Macron is the only exception in french politics, who is not pro-russia.
So these countries were not the backbone of NATO, they didnt think their politics correctly in a strategic scale.
They mostly played their local games, focused on short term goals of their own country, instead of thinking about the whole NATO alliance.
I dont really like Trump, but there is one thing he said right, that Germany and France were not doing enough in NATO, and relying on America for European safety too much.
This has somewhat changed with Ukraine war, and its better now, but we are talking about past here.

Quote (Meanwhile @ 8 May 2023 20:57)

Gz you are getting tricked in usual whataboutstism shit. Don't talk about France please you have no fucking idea of the shit you are saying that's pretty clear now.

Quote (Ironfister @ May 8 2023 07:24pm)

You say that Germany and France opposed, but other countries like UK, Australia joined it.
Germany and France were the countries who denied Ukraine membership into NATO, because they wanted to stay friendly with Putin.
Germany only spends like 1,2% gdp on their military, while according to NATO guidelines they should spend 2%.
Germans made their economy dependant on Russian gas pipeline.
France politicans are relatively friendly to Russians, with mrs Pen getting financing from Russian banks. Mr Macron is the only exception in french politics, who is not pro-russia.
So these countries were not the backbone of NATO, they didnt think their politics correctly in a strategic scale.
They mostly played their local games, focused on short term goals of their own country, instead of thinking about the whole NATO alliance.
I dont really like Trump, but there is one thing he said right, that Germany and France were not doing enough in NATO, and relying on America for European safety too much.
This has somewhat changed with Ukraine war, and its better now, but we are talking about past here.

Quote (Malopox @ 8 May 2023 20:58)

No - you are supposed to be on his side pierre.

Quote (ferdia @ 8 May 2023 20:53)

The UK, and the US, got into bed with America. this is not something new.

There were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. The UK and the US, conspired to blackmail/coerce several countries to vote in their favor at the UN re: Iraq. This all came to light via a UK whistleblower in GCHQ, who was charged under offenses against the secrets act. It went to court and the state, wait for it, declined to offer comment. "In May 2019 The Guardian stated the case was dropped "when the prosecution realised that evidence would emerge ... that even British government lawyers believed the invasion was unlawful".

your welcome.

TLDR: The US invaded Iraq to create regime change because they didnt like Saddam. Now, I dont like some of my neighbors but i'm not going outside to kill their kids or their dog.

Quote

But then on Saturday, Ukrainian Air Force commander Mykola Oleshchuk finally confirmed on a Telegram post the "historic event": one of the UAF's new Patriot missiles had indeed downed the "unparalleled" Kinzhal. He noted the Kinzhal had been launched from over Russian airspace by a MiG-31K fighter, and admonished the media for reporting the incident in advance of his confirmation.

Some sources allege Ukraine’s military initially cast doubt on the kill because it didn't want Russia to know it could down Kinzhal missiles or that a Patriot battery was active in Kyiv, and was frustrated when the news leaked. However, the widespread dissemination of the image of the downed nose cone perhaps caused a change in media strategy.