Key Word: alternative

Alternative for Ukraine is becoming a new Belarus, basically part of Russia.
Ukrainians would have to support every russian future offensive wars, just like belarusians dont have a choice now.
Ukrainians would be banned trade with west, just like Belarus is.
Probably Ukrainians would be also drafted as hell into Russian army. Putin would consider Ukraine as his colony, and leaders dont treat colonies as good as mainland country. Putin is no exception here, colonies are to be juiced out.
Also Putin might want to simply punish Ukraine for breaking up with Russia in the 90s. We dont know that.

It's like we live in an alternate universe in which Ukraine wasn't Russia/Soviet aligned for pretty much majority of it's history as recent as like 10 years ago. I know it may be hard to believe but many people in these former soviet states lived and coexisted, intermarried, etc.

Colony of Russia refuses to join the current conflict, colony of US is happy to bomb Iraq. Freedom, Black Mirror series.

Congrats:

So your argument is that since Ukraine and Russia were part of the USSR and had a shared history, that Russia cannot be subjugating Ukraine in a manner similar to how it treats Belarus?

"Countries that don't behave like we want them to against our geopolitical enemies only do it because they are being subjugated"

There was a time when the left was known for and stood for being anti war and pushed back against neo-con propaganda, now literally all you guys parrot is alphabet agency/neo-con talking points. It's fucking hilarious, how not grounded you actually are in any fundamental ideology. In the 60's and 70's people that were the 'left' in San Fran, NY, Berkeley and many other rallied against wars, now it's a literal 180.

This post was edited by ofthevoid on May 7 2023 08:18pm

Out of necessity



The left is rallying against war. Its asking Russia to withdraw and end its military actions.

This post was edited by Neptunus on May 7 2023 08:21pm

Seems you're not making a coherent point and are instead just assigning whatever position you don't like to some nebulous "the left".

Because in reality, the left is calling for Russia to stop invading a sovereign nation. They are for defending a sovereign country from invasion by another nation.

The West and Russia both try to influence Ukraine, but when the West fails to influence Ukraine, they don't start a war over it.

If I was the average westerner that formulated his opinion on this war and what's happening there just by watching carefully curated media that's always aligned with our geopolitical interests I would probably agree. But I'm not. Being born in eastern Europe in an ex-soviet state and having many relatives there and having actually traveled there and spent many years in that part of the world, no, it wasn't always out of necessity. There was symbiosis. Life under communism was probably worse than what I see today under western capitalism, but what followed after the collapse 90s in a lot of these ex-soviet states was objectively worse, which left many of these people yearning and acknowledging how well they had it during soviet times. You can keep believing that it was always some ethnic group (in this case I guess the Russians?) domineering and enslaving everyone else, or whatever other in vogue revisionist history you want to believe, but I'll trust the dozens of sources of family members that have lived through it as non-Russians that have told me about it rather neck beards on the internet.



While supporting hundreds of billions of dollars in lethal aid packages and continual escalations? Can you point me to the 60's and 70's sit ins that had similar dynamics against our other proxy wars against the soviets?

This post was edited by ofthevoid on May 7 2023 08:54pm