Quote (Ironfister @ May 6 2023 10:35pm)
The west doesnt decide for Ukraine, Ukrainians decided for themselves that they dont want to be a poor Russian slave, and prefer to be part of west, rich and free world.
Belarus for example took different path, they decided they are ok with being Russia vassals and part of evil empire. Its true Lukashenka kind of limits Russian attrocities, but the country is getting more and more dependant on Russia every year and belarusians never know when will Russians assasinate Lukashenko and replace him with someone even more loyal.
Its a grim path they follow. But it was belarusian people decision to surrender to Russia and the west didnt intervene.
You must be joking, the West / NATO have an agenda, NATO expansion is well documented, you should check it out.
Check what was said in 2008 (NATO Bucharest summit) and look up the EU - Ukraine association agreement that led to Euromaidan followed by the Crimea takeover and the uprisings in the East

Quote (Black XistenZ @ May 7 2023 08:35am)
Last February, when it became clear that a full-scale Russian invasion was likely and imminent, the vast majority of Ukraine's population decided not to flee. Even today, a significant portion of Ukraine's female, underage and senior population has remained in the country although they would be free to leave.
Similarly, Zelensky had the option to leave Kyiv during the first weeks of the war, some of his advisors and international partners even urged him to flee, yet he refused. Note that this was at a time when the Russians were standing on the outskirts of Kyiv and it was a real possibility that they would overrun the Ukrainian defenses or accomplish a full encirclement and besiege the city.
Dito for many cities in the Eastern and Southern parts of Ukraine, cities like Kharkiv, Odessa or Mykolaiv: those are cities with a high share of Russian-speaker, cities which voted for Yanukovych over Tymoshenko during the 2010 presidential election that you and your ilk love to cite. It would have been easy for these cities to just roll over and surrender to the approaching Russian forces, yet they didn't.
So please explain to me how the West made this decision for the Ukrainian people, its president and mayors. Would Western intelligence have liquidated Zelensky had he refused to "play his role" as a warmonger? Did the West undermine all of Ukraine's local structures and place pro-Western, pro-War radicals in positions of power throughout the country so that they would "drag them into a war that the silent majority didn't want"?
Same as I said to ironfister
The West / NATO have an agenda and it's clear as day. It was decided long ago that Ukraine would become an EU member and NATO member.
The West decided this, willingly taking the risk involved or are you arguing they're so stupid that they never saw this coming?