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May 7 2023 05:00am
Ironfister:

In terms of immigrants/refugees, the distinction, for Ireland, is that we DO have a open doors policy for refugees (you said you did not know a country that had a open door policy). In terms of immigrants in general (refugees or otherwise): Ireland is in 7th place in the OECD (Poland is joint 15th with Germany), in terms of the share of immigrants in its population, with the foreign-born accounting for 17% of the total population. 46% of them arrived in the last 5 years compared with 22% on average across OECD countries. The foreign-born population is on average more educated than across OECD countries, with 43% of highly educated compared with 31% across OECD countries. 66% come from an OECD high-income country.

Finally the Iraq invasion was nothing to do with WMD's. It was a lie. There is enough evidence to prove it. They KNEW there were no WMD's, and no Iraq did not have ties to alqauida. If anyone had ties it was the US government. They gave weapons to a country and those weapons were eventually turned against them. who knew. If you dispute this position I would urge you to read more about it. Ye and well Iraq was rekt, with 500,000 children killed (and equal number of women afaik). Details.

I echo above, selecting Iraq is a poor example to support your position.

This post was edited by ferdia on May 7 2023 05:02am
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May 7 2023 05:18am
Quote (Ironfister @ 7 May 2023 18:26)
Iraq invasion was because Iraq was preparing Weapons Mass Destruction and had ties with alquaida which destroyed World Trade Center towers in New York.
Once a country aquires WMD you cant attack it, you are on their mercy forever. So sometimes politicians need to make courageus decisions, instead of hiding your head in the sand, as some coward westerners prefer to do.
Iraq gdp per capita was 1200usd in 2002, year before invasion, and 4500usd in 2006.
So as a result of our intervention, Iraq people became 3 times richer.


Quote (Malopox @ 7 May 2023 19:00)
You are dodging my question, but okay, I will entertain this.

WMD and alqaeda links have been long debunked as non-existent. Saddam neither had WMD, had no intention to develop them or harbour alqaeda it seems: https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/colin-powell-iraq-war/2021/10/18/179d66bc-3023-11ec-a880-a9d8c009a0b1_story.html

Interesting take on GDP per capita to justify a war. Would you say if Ukranian GDP goes three times up (14k or so) to the level of Russian GDP (35k?) then the Russian invasion is justified?


I finally understand why some people are stupid enough to put bombs onto themselves and blow people up and why some parents in the United States wants to help their kids transition to another gender just by reading our Polish Friend's comments.
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May 7 2023 05:37am
Quote (Meanwhile @ 7 May 2023 03:42)
Canadian ancestry:

The fertility of these women was incredible with an average of eight children per couple.

"good" version: These women were selected orphans (with a certificate of good conduct) then sent to Canada
" bad" version: Mentally ill prostitutes from Salpetriere Hospital. LMAO

Imho; it was both.


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May 7 2023 06:13am
Quote (Malopox @ 7 May 2023 13:00)
You are dodging my question, but okay, I will entertain this.

WMD and alqaeda links have been long debunked as non-existent. Saddam neither had WMD, had no intention to develop them or harbour alqaeda it seems: https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/colin-powell-iraq-war/2021/10/18/179d66bc-3023-11ec-a880-a9d8c009a0b1_story.html

Interesting take on GDP per capita to justify a war. Would you say if Ukranian GDP goes three times up (14k or so) to the level of Russian GDP (35k?) then the Russian invasion is justified?


The article is from 2021 year, and the invasion took place in 2003.
We had less information back in 2003 year, the decision was made based on information available back then.
I wasnt saying that invasion is justified because of gdp growth, but rather that the country wasnt that very much bombed, as you are saying.
There was always a reason to leave Iraq, its not like USA war changed anything there.

So far Ukrainian gdp goes down. Russia was making trouble in Ukraine since like 20years ago, there was a frozen war since 2014, so Russia is already responsible for Ukraine low gdp lately.

But maybe paradoxically its true that Ukrainian gdp might go up after the victory war. Maybe an invasion and heroic defense will actually build up the Ukrainian nation to a level never observed before.
They already have new Heroes, like their president.
They are more patriotic than ever.
Ukrainians can now freely travel and work across Europe.
They have official candidate status into EU.
All they need now is NATO membership, to secure their future.
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May 7 2023 06:24am
Quote (ferdia @ 7 May 2023 13:00)
Ironfister:

In terms of immigrants/refugees, the distinction, for Ireland, is that we DO have a open doors policy for refugees(you said you did not know a country that had a open door policy). In terms of immigrants in general (refugees or otherwise): Ireland is in 7th place in the OECD (Poland is joint 15th with Germany), in terms of the share of immigrants in its population, with the foreign-born accounting for 17% of the total population. 46% of them arrived in the last 5 years compared with 22% on average across OECD countries. The foreign-born population is on average more educated than across OECD countries, with 43% of highly educated compared with 31% across OECD countries. 66% come from an OECD high-income country.

Finally the Iraq invasion was nothing to do with WMD's. It was a lie. There is enough evidence to prove it. They KNEW there were no WMD's, and no Iraq did not have ties to alqauida. If anyone had ties it was the US government. They gave weapons to a country and those weapons were eventually turned against them. who knew. If you dispute this position I would urge you to read more about it. Ye and well Iraq was rekt, with 500,000 children killed (and equal number of women afaik). Details.

I echo above, selecting Iraq is a poor example to support your position.


There are millions of refugees in camps in Jordania.
The conditions there were/are terrible. People are dying there.
If you say you have open doors policy why don't you go and get them, save them and bring them to Ireland? Give them social houses and enough money to make a living?
Of course you dont do it, refugees would have to travel in some kind of small boats, for Ireland to accept them, which is impossible because of large distance. Refugees/immigrants come to Italy, Greece, Poland instead because we are the border countries.
That's why although you theoretically might have an open doors policy, in reality you dont and just look for excuses not to help people survive.
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May 7 2023 06:38am
Quote (Ironfister @ May 7 2023 01:24pm)
There are millions of refugees in camps in Jordania.
The conditions there were/are terrible. People are dying there.
If you say you have open doors policy why don't you go and get them, save them and bring them to Ireland? Give them social houses and enough money to make a living?
Of course you dont do it, refugees would have to travel in some kind of small boats, for Ireland to accept them, which is impossible because of large distance. Refugees/immigrants come to Italy, Greece, Poland instead because we are the border countries.
That's why although you theoretically might have an open doors policy, in reality you dont and just look for excuses not to help people survive.


ok well, with brevity here is my attempt at helping people: go read more about the causes of the iraq war before telling us that it was a Righteous/Just war. Perhaps if certain superpowers did not meddle in the middle east there would not be so many wars there.

This post was edited by ferdia on May 7 2023 06:39am
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May 7 2023 07:26am
Czech president warns Ukraine against rushed counteroffensive

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/may/07/czech-president-petr-pavel-warns-against-rushed-ukraine-counteroffensive

He's right, i guess Ukrainians aren't hacks and know how hot the situation is. I would give them a second chance anyway. ^_^
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May 7 2023 09:16am
Quote (Ironfister @ May 6 2023 10:35pm)
The west doesnt decide for Ukraine, Ukrainians decided for themselves that they dont want to be a poor Russian slave, and prefer to be part of west, rich and free world.
Belarus for example took different path, they decided they are ok with being Russia vassals and part of evil empire. Its true Lukashenka kind of limits Russian attrocities, but the country is getting more and more dependant on Russia every year and belarusians never know when will Russians assasinate Lukashenko and replace him with someone even more loyal.
Its a grim path they follow. But it was belarusian people decision to surrender to Russia and the west didnt intervene.


You must be joking, the West / NATO have an agenda, NATO expansion is well documented, you should check it out.

Check what was said in 2008 (NATO Bucharest summit) and look up the EU - Ukraine association agreement that led to Euromaidan followed by the Crimea takeover and the uprisings in the East ;)


Quote (Black XistenZ @ May 7 2023 08:35am)
Last February, when it became clear that a full-scale Russian invasion was likely and imminent, the vast majority of Ukraine's population decided not to flee. Even today, a significant portion of Ukraine's female, underage and senior population has remained in the country although they would be free to leave.

Similarly, Zelensky had the option to leave Kyiv during the first weeks of the war, some of his advisors and international partners even urged him to flee, yet he refused. Note that this was at a time when the Russians were standing on the outskirts of Kyiv and it was a real possibility that they would overrun the Ukrainian defenses or accomplish a full encirclement and besiege the city.

Dito for many cities in the Eastern and Southern parts of Ukraine, cities like Kharkiv, Odessa or Mykolaiv: those are cities with a high share of Russian-speaker, cities which voted for Yanukovych over Tymoshenko during the 2010 presidential election that you and your ilk love to cite. It would have been easy for these cities to just roll over and surrender to the approaching Russian forces, yet they didn't.

So please explain to me how the West made this decision for the Ukrainian people, its president and mayors. Would Western intelligence have liquidated Zelensky had he refused to "play his role" as a warmonger? Did the West undermine all of Ukraine's local structures and place pro-Western, pro-War radicals in positions of power throughout the country so that they would "drag them into a war that the silent majority didn't want"?


Same as I said to ironfister

The West / NATO have an agenda and it's clear as day. It was decided long ago that Ukraine would become an EU member and NATO member. The West decided this, willingly taking the risk involved or are you arguing they're so stupid that they never saw this coming?

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May 7 2023 01:50pm
Quote (Djunior @ 7 May 2023 17:16)
You must be joking, the West / NATO have an agenda, NATO expansion is well documented, you should check it out.

Check what was said in 2008 (NATO Bucharest summit) and look up the EU - Ukraine association agreement that led to Euromaidan followed by the Crimea takeover and the uprisings in the East ;)

Same as I said to ironfister

The West / NATO have an agenda and it's clear as day. It was decided long ago that Ukraine would become an EU member and NATO member. The West decided this, willingly taking the risk involved or are you arguing they're so stupid that they never saw this coming?


???
Ukraine applies for membership, its their decision to apply for membership in NATO and EU.
EU and NATO can either accept their applications, deny it or say "not now".
Is it really that hard to understand?
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May 7 2023 02:41pm
Quote (Ironfister @ May 7 2023 09:50pm)
???
Ukraine applies for membership, its their decision to apply for membership in NATO and EU.
EU and NATO can either accept their applications, deny it or say "not now".
Is it really that hard to understand?


Consequences: Crimea takeover and uprisings in the East and now a full blown war and people like you seem happy about it SMH

Well done!
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