see my edit.

shooting a dying man today or tomorrow, there is a time difference. he was not ready to be shot today.

This post was edited by ferdia on Apr 27 2023 02:32pm

Curious of the FSB & related russian interests personnel presence, in number, in Ukraine since 1991...
If anyone can grab the info do not hesitate.

no, see mine.

probably 1000's of them tbh, or even 10's of 1000's. your argument is well made.

This post was edited by ferdia on Apr 27 2023 02:34pm

You are entitled to your own opinion. I will accept your position however, that you did speed it up. if you edit your post snipa i will take this out. did you mis-speak?

This post was edited by ferdia on Apr 27 2023 02:37pm

Thus i wrote FSB while russian secret police/services had a different name at this time.
We could also include the famous orthodox cleric spies (from the church of moscow), gangsters/mafias, or... russian oligarches network.
Then later the whole gigantic effort to interfer in all elections... Up to 2005 with the dioxin poisonning of new ukranian president Yushchenko.

Yet it's even hard to believe Ukraine managed to get over this. Maybe it's a mix of good conditions.

This post was edited by Meanwhile on Apr 27 2023 02:52pm

for sure it was heavy western influence and it was amazing that they came so far (to be pro european) without conflict before 2014, notwithstanding all of that russian influence church/spies/paid politicians etc.

This post was edited by ferdia on Apr 27 2023 02:53pm

There you go lol
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_Service_of_Ukraine

This post was edited by DizzyBusiness on Apr 27 2023 03:09pm

Hmm not really but thank you for the tip ! 30000 but it's mixed up, seems it was very corrupted at the beginning.

I was looking for the real source, from the start, but it's in Ukrainian to have the long version

https://uk-m-wikipedia-org.translate.goog/wiki/%D0%9E%D1%80%D0%B3%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B8_%D0%B4%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B6%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%BD%D0%BE%D1%97_%D0%B1%D0%B5%D0%B7%D0%BF%D0%B5%D0%BA%D0%B8_%D0%B2_%D0%A3%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%97%D0%BD%D1%81%D1%8C%D0%BA%D1%96%D0%B9_%D0%A0%D0%A1%D0%A0?_x_tr_sl=uk&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp

"
In 1991, in connection with the collapse of the USSR, its structures, including the system of state security bodies, ceased to exist. On September 20, 1991, the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine adopted a resolution "On the establishment of the National Security Service of Ukraine" (NSB of Ukraine). The State Security Committee of the Ukrainian SSR was liquidated by the same resolution. On November 3, 1991, the National Security Service was headed by E.K. Marchuk, who in 1988-1990 was the head of the Ukrainian Security Service of the Ukrainian SSR in the Poltava region, and in 1990-1991 was the first deputy head of the Ukrainian Security Service of Ukraine.
"

Basically Ukraine had a very weak independance in 1991.. That KGB thing was a very big parasite of a VERY long time.

This post was edited by Meanwhile on Apr 27 2023 03:22pm

Lmao

Russians have been in Ukraine since 1991!!! Confirmed!

This post was edited by DizzyBusiness on Apr 27 2023 03:33pm