Quote (Neptunus @ Apr 18 2023 06:22pm)
The people were sleeping. They didnt care. But war and hard times bring out nationalism and patriotism. In the end its a question of an intruder in your own lands and if you didnt believe in your own land earlier, you are very inclined to do so later. I know some Ukrainians and i know some Russians, im familiar with at least some of the thoughts out there.
When you say "half-truths" youre painting me as an opponent of truth simply because im giving a perspective on how the Ukraine-Russia being brotherly nations isnt a one-sides issue. Every fact is a half-truth and you as a proponent of a multi-faceted approach to the conflict should understand that all there is is half-truths and thats why were having a discussion here.
And no, it's not any different. Greater cultures assimilate smaller ones into them, this has happened in the Arab world through conquest, Russification has happened in Soviet states, and even prior to Soviet times... Spanish in Latin America (its even included in the name lol).
The brotherly nations story applies to Ukraine and Poland too. They act in public like their allies now, which they are in a strictly political sense now, but they also share a a recent and controversial history of violence.
This is true but the inverse is true as well. Ultra-nationalism can also bring on a war. When this war started I talked to my one Ukrainian uncle (he's in his late 40s) that has lived in the US for awhile now, but he's originally from Odessa, Ukraine. He told me the reason the war broke out and the number one group he holds at fault are the Banderovtsy (Stepan Bandera followers) who espouse an ultra-nationalistic policies who in WW2 aligned themselves with Nazi's and actually exterminated Poles & as well as other minority groups in Galicia (modern day Lviv region and other regions in west Ukraine). These are the same people who march under Pravi Sector banners or Azov banners and were the violent elements during the Maidan uprising. Google it, and you will see his posters pretty much at every pro-nationalistic Ukraine rally.
Prior to these guys taking over wholesale in Ukraine, Ukraine had a relatively good relationship with Russia. Again, I've been there, almost every person I spoke to was a fluent Russian speaker, my wife's aunt used to go do business in Russia, and these are people in southwest Ukraine, not in the Donbass or Crimea. This notion that these are two estranged people that prior to the war the Russian would just dominate, abuse and refer as to 2nd class citizens is not really reality if applied generally. I see a lot of people referring to this war as genocide. How many historical genocides have you seen where 35% of all the refugees that left the country went to the country that's supposedly genociding them? About 3 million Ukrainians went to Russia. That should tell you a lot of the nature of this war or the current framing.
Now the more I think about England-Ireland is fairly good analog. Northern Ireland is to England as the Donbass is to Russia.