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Apr 12 2023 09:12am
Quote (ofthevoid @ 12 Apr 2023 22:53)
Polish media claims France is blocking EU decision on financing ammunition supplies to Ukraine

https://news.yahoo.com/amphtml/polish-media-claims-france-blocking-082607662.html

If true this is a big shift.


Well instead of sending missiles to Taiwan now, the US can use their stockpiles for Ukraine instead if France is blocking it .
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Apr 12 2023 09:14am
Quote (ofthevoid @ Apr 12 2023 03:53pm)
Polish media claims France is blocking EU decision on financing ammunition supplies to Ukraine

https://news.yahoo.com/amphtml/polish-media-claims-france-blocking-082607662.html

If true this is a big shift.


some people never read these things, without further ado:

France is allegedly blocking an EU decision to finance the supply of ammunition to Ukraine, which requires unanimity among member states.
Source: Polish news agency PAP citing a senior EU official

The decision to finance the supply of ammunition to Ukraine by the European Union was made at the EU summit in March. The €2 billion needed for this purpose are to be provided from the European Peace Facility. The political agreement reached at the summit, however, has yet to be turned into a legally binding document. Discussions regarding this case are still ongoing. Of the €2 billion, half is to be used to reimburse supplies of ammunition from member states’ warehouses. Currently, however, there are not enough missiles in these warehouses, which is why the idea of purchasing them from outside the EU has emerged.

"However, this was opposed by France. In this situation, the solution would be to procure ammunition from a third country on a donated basis, and then recover it from the warehouses of a member state by transferring other weapons to the third country. Talks are underway on this matter," an EU source told PAP. A bigger problem is with the second billion euros, which is to be allocated for joint orders from European industry, i.e. de facto in Poland, France and Germany. "The French blocked the EU decision on the second billion euros before Christmas. The draft contained a provision that the ammunition was to be reimbursed only on the basis of requests submitted by Ukraine. Paris, however, wants, without explaining why, this provision to be deleted. This would also mean the possibility of refunding ammunition which the Ukrainian side has not asked for. In addition to the decision on ammunition, France wants to add the possibility of compensating for missile deliveries," a senior EU source told PAP.

In the opinion of some diplomats, lobbying by defence companies may be behind France’s decision. Most EU countries protested against such changes, including Poland. Poland’s Permanent Representative to the EU, Andrzej Sadoś, pointed out at the ambassadors’ meeting in Brussels that the EU must not waste time and must provide Ukraine with ammunition supplies as soon as possible. Poland also expressed disappointment that the EU could not reach an agreement and indicated that it would be difficult to explain this to Ukrainian partners.

Talks on the matter are expected to resume on Wednesday.

=============

I am not quite sure what to make of it at this time. I am still wrapping my head around that wording (above), the story has to also be weighed beside this story (also from yahoo):

Acting Defense Minister of Denmark Troels Lund Poulsen said on April 11 that the West could make a decision on the transfer of fighter jets to Ukraine "before the summer" following the delivery of MiG-29 aircraft from Poland and Slovakia. Discussions take time, as countries must act together, but a solution remains achievable "in the short term," said the minister, according to the AFP, cited by Le Figaro.

"Denmark is not going to do this alone," added Poulsen. "We will have to do this with several countries. And we will also have to have a dialogue with the Americans on this." Slovakia and Poland have already delivered four MiG-29 jets each to Ukraine. Polish President Andrzej Duda said on April 5 that his country had prepared to transfer four more and was preparing six more that "can be transferred quite soon," bringing the total number pledged to Kyiv to 14.

Duda also suggested that in the future, his country might provide its entire fleet of MiG-29 fighters to Ukraine once the Polish Air Force acquires new aircraft to offset the loss. While acknowledging the MiG-29 transfer as a major help, Ukrainian Air Force spokesperson Yuriy Ihnat said that the Soviet-era fighters are "unlikely to be a game-changer at the front."

Ukraine is seeking to acquire more advanced Western jets, such as the American-made F-16s, but no country has pledged to deliver those yet.

This post was edited by ferdia on Apr 12 2023 09:20am
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Apr 12 2023 09:18am
Quote (ferdia @ Apr 12 2023 10:39am)

================

Will try to go back on topic now:

In the last 10 years the prison population in Ukraine has shrunk by 66%. Discuss.

https://i.imgur.com/yzaMROX.png


Probably all joined the army in some form or another, I think it was only legalized at the start of the war but the legality of something in Ukraine doesn't really mean much.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10559879/Zelensky-reveals-prisoners-combat-experience-RELEASED-help-defend-Ukraine.html

They also hired criminals from other countries, a leader in the foreign legion was an Polish gangster who ordered troops to loot shopping malls, pointed weapons at soldiers who disagreed with him and supposedly withheld ammunition and gear from his soldiers in order to sell them for personal profit.

https://kyivindependent.com/suicide-missions-abuse-physical-threats-international-legion-fighters-speak-out-against-leaderships-misconduct/

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Apr 12 2023 09:28am
Quote (ferdia @ Apr 12 2023 12:14pm)
some people never read these things, without further ado:

France is allegedly blocking an EU decision to finance the supply of ammunition to Ukraine, which requires unanimity among member states.
Source: Polish news agency PAP citing a senior EU official

The decision to finance the supply of ammunition to Ukraine by the European Union was made at the EU summit in March. The €2 billion needed for this purpose are to be provided from the European Peace Facility. The political agreement reached at the summit, however, has yet to be turned into a legally binding document. Discussions regarding this case are still ongoing. Of the €2 billion, half is to be used to reimburse supplies of ammunition from member states’ warehouses. Currently, however, there are not enough missiles in these warehouses, which is why the idea of purchasing them from outside the EU has emerged.

"However, this was opposed by France. In this situation, the solution would be to procure ammunition from a third country on a donated basis, and then recover it from the warehouses of a member state by transferring other weapons to the third country. Talks are underway on this matter," an EU source told PAP. A bigger problem is with the second billion euros, which is to be allocated for joint orders from European industry, i.e. de facto in Poland, France and Germany. "The French blocked the EU decision on the second billion euros before Christmas. The draft contained a provision that the ammunition was to be reimbursed only on the basis of requests submitted by Ukraine. Paris, however, wants, without explaining why, this provision to be deleted. This would also mean the possibility of refunding ammunition which the Ukrainian side has not asked for. In addition to the decision on ammunition, France wants to add the possibility of compensating for missile deliveries," a senior EU source told PAP.

In the opinion of some diplomats, lobbying by defence companies may be behind France’s decision. Most EU countries protested against such changes, including Poland. Poland’s Permanent Representative to the EU, Andrzej Sadoś, pointed out at the ambassadors’ meeting in Brussels that the EU must not waste time and must provide Ukraine with ammunition supplies as soon as possible. Poland also expressed disappointment that the EU could not reach an agreement and indicated that it would be difficult to explain this to Ukrainian partners.

Talks on the matter are expected to resume on Wednesday.

=============

I am not quite sure what to make of it at this time. I am still wrapping my head around that wording (above).



The "European Peace facility" providing funding for ammunition seems pretty Orweillian.

And tbh this just seems like France doesn't want to supply infinite amounts of weapons for free to a corrupt shithole that is probably just going to sell them on the black market.
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Apr 12 2023 09:28am
Quote (ofthevoid @ 12 Apr 2023 16:53)
Polish media claims France is blocking EU decision on financing ammunition supplies to Ukraine

https://news.yahoo.com/amphtml/polish-media-claims-france-blocking-082607662.html

If true this is a big shift.


You quickly jumped on this conclusion: exactly like the pro-russian propaganda websites...

France want that only EU companies be considered as contractors (for this EU money) while there is legal uncertainty to who actually qualifies as an EU company.
Greece and Cyprus align themselves with the French position, which diplomats have attributed to a desire to avoid giving orders to Turkey...
Meanwhile, the European Commission must also "map capacity" of the bloc's defense industry before finalizing the deal, as expanding production may be easier said than done.

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Apr 12 2023 09:31am
Quote (Meanwhile @ Apr 12 2023 12:28pm)
You quickly jumped on this conclusion: exactly like the pro-russian propaganda websites...

France want that only EU companies be considered as contractors (for this EU money) while there is legal uncertainty to who actually qualifies as an EU company.
Greece and Cyprus align themselves with the French position, which diplomats have attributed to a desire to avoid giving orders to Turkey...
Meanwhile, the European Commission must also "map capacity" of the bloc's defense industry before finalizing the deal, as expanding production may be easier said than done.


Oh good the person who doesn't speak English is explaining it
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Apr 12 2023 09:32am
Quote (DizzyBusiness @ 12 Apr 2023 23:31)
Oh good the person who doesn't speak English is explaining it


Eld'ed Stormshield Hammerdin is in the house

This post was edited by Hamsterbaby on Apr 12 2023 09:32am
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Apr 12 2023 09:32am
also, it looks like "Nato" "Forces" in Ukraine, is no big deal, according to this report (pulled from irish media):

The British Embassy in Kyiv said in June 2021 that UK and US special forces were holding "joint training activity" with their Ukrainian counterparts. But London has not disclosed their continued presence inside the country since Russia's invasion in February last year. "The widely reported leak of alleged classified US information has demonstrated a serious level of inaccuracy," the MoD said in a statement posted on Twitter. "Readers should be cautious about taking at face value allegations that have the potential to spread disinformation." US Secretary of State Antony Blinken and Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin spoke with their Ukrainian counterparts yesterday as Washington seeks to reassure its allies following the leak.

Russia said it was unclear whether the leaked documents were real, but that it had already known that instructors from NATO countries were taking part in military actions in Ukraine. (ferdia: therefore I assume they treat this as no big deal).

The breach - which has sparked a criminal investigation by the Department of Justice - includes various classified information about Ukraine's battle against Russian forces, as well as secret assessments of US allies. Many of the documents are no longer available on the sites where they first appeared, and the United States is reportedly working to have them removed.

This post was edited by ferdia on Apr 12 2023 09:33am
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Apr 12 2023 09:32am
Quote (DizzyBusiness @ 12 Apr 2023 17:31)
Oh good the person who doesn't speak English is explaining it


I can explain it to you, but i cannot understand it for you... ^_^
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Apr 12 2023 09:35am
Quote (ferdia @ Apr 12 2023 04:39pm)
correct me if I say anything wrong here, I do not pay too much attention to german politic's other then what is broadly reported.

All governments make decisions, every day, without putting it to a public vote. If a government had to ask the public every time they wanted to do something nothing would get done. If you are in germany, I would say that a proportion of the german people elected the people that are now in government, making decisions for all of germany.

If you look at England, and the Brexit Vote, you will see the dangers of putting serious questions to the people who, having been lied to for years, voted in a way detrimental to their way of life and prosperity.

In you look at Ireland, some years ago a politician (later leader of government) brought in a law banning cigarettes in the work place. I was of 2 minds. On the one hand I agreed with you: how could they do something that effects so many people, without asking them, and, critically, what will they do next. On the other hand I was of the view that the law in and of itself, was a positive step to change Irish culture. History has broadly shown that that politician did not fall down the rabbit hole and let power consume him (but he does not want Ireland to be Neutral anymore, a fact I am strongly opposed to, for the reasons you outlined).

Please dont take my response as a personal attack. I am merely providing a viewpoint, which you do not have to agree with.


k let me add something maybe for better understanding: we germans got ~5 big partys. CDU CSU SPD FDP and die Grünen. okay AFD now aswell.
all of those are FULLY capitalists. There is in the end no real difference between those partys, since ALL of those politicians are capitalists who do ANYTHING for money, as we saw again the last years

what we germans are allowed to vote for, is the lesser evil. thats it. in the end, same shit continues, folks get scammed, poverty increases.

for example: while we discuss the minimum wage to increase from 10 to 12€, in the end that means 12€*160h=1920 brutto = ~1370€ netto each month. 1370€ - ~700€ rent (cheap 2room flat) -100€ car -30€ internet -25€ GEZ -50€ electricity -100€ heating etc ~25% of the working class (number is increasing hard due increasing temporary work and massive pricedumping due the massive imigration of foreign workers from eastern bloc) got 300-400€/ month left. In the calculation is not included for example MOT, car reparations, cellphones etc
after working 45years your pension is ~70% of last netto. thats ~960€ / month. now you can calculate yourself how many people in germany got how much money to survive

what i want to tell you: ALL of those 5-6 big partys in germany support that capitalistic system.
we can only choose the color, not the content..

that means for me: There is no vote. Anyone who disagrees me in that point is in my opinion naive and too uninformed about capitalism. Or just an asshole who knows, but dont know that he support the genocide against his own people.
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