I'm glad you speak for all of the people in this various countries. THanks for clearing that up for us all.

History is always written by the victor. Remember than Fenderp.... it's why your ancestors didn't get to reprint the history books to remove the Jews, Poles, and a few other groups from existence.

Good riddance.

obviously there is a certain amount of truth to that, but your lines and distinctions are a little too arbitrary and forced to make them fit. how would japan fit into this for example? austria and italy? no, i think it's rather obvious that a country's CHOICE how to deal with EVERY aspect of their history (this mainly refers to accepting responsibility and educating the new generations) plays a very crucial role, and not just the circumstances of its downfall.
there are always ways to whitewash your history and glorify your past in unreasonable and historically incorrect (incomplete) ways, and many countries obviously do that - no matter if they were 'beaten' or just 'imploded'...

This post was edited by fender on Dec 19 2018 03:35pm

at a glance i'd explain the difference with japan as a stronger national sense of pride in dealing with defeat. they wake it harder than the euros did, and punished themselves in silence for their crimes. but they also have a deep sense of intra-asian racism. so they still feel justified for tossing Philippines babies on pitchforks because "fuck them thats why".

austria id have to take some time to even theorize. Italy tho, we all know they have an unbreakable sense of pride that not even defeat could take out. italy also avoided the devastation of bombing by comparison to a place like germany which was utterly destroyed. just some factors that come to mind.

i don't think you could go much more retard on the 'national sense of pride' and 'racism' scale than the nazis did - and since we are NOT simple minded racists we know this isn't inherent to certain people but part of their culture and education, meaning changeable.
so while again your point touches part of the explanation, it does not work as the sole reason, let alone an excuse (not that one is required or that i'm suggesting you're trying to make one) for their way to deal with their history. so again, there obviously is a multitude of reasons WHY certain countries do it certain ways, it's still absolutely fascinating to see the difference in approaches and their outcomes - which is my whole point...

What I would consider to be more interesting is the question how the way a country/nation deals with its historical baggage affects its future. Are countries which look back and account for their past sins better off than those who dont, who try to hide from it? Probably. At the very least, it improves the chances to prevent a repeat of the mistakes of the past.

But the recent development of politics and the public discourse in Germany make me think that a "culture of remembrance" - while usually a good thing - can be taken too far and lead to pathological blockades in a nation's thinking.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Dec 19 2018 03:56pm

i would generally agree that it can be both beneficial in terms of preventing the repetition of previous mistakes, as well as a possible hindrance if taken to far (although i'm sure we disagree about the latter when it comes to its influence in current day germany) - but i feel that the history of different nations is too unique to formulate a general rule about what is the 'better' approach, even though i'm personally biased towards honest processing - also, i'd be hard pressed to find other nations that took the radically open and honest approach that germany took, but i'm open to look into examples if you can think of some.
but just take japan and germany as examples - in terms of economic and political (as in their importance for the world community, the weight of their voices and the international reputation and respect towards them) success they are very much comparable and had remarkably similar developments despite their vastly different approaches towards their own past.

they might irrelevant in the big picture, however they are doing good job in providing wealth and security for their citizens
being big and important isnt a value in itself, sometimes its harmful to be honest, austria is a good example for that as well
they should have joined the emerging german national state instead of desperately trying to keep their eastern european territory

nowadays i think austria is the better germany right now, we could learn a lot from them

Austria is somewhat better off than Germany, but they are also much smaller and thus get hit a lot harder by economic or social crises.

Imho, the true role-model to look up to is Switzerland. They are what Germany should have and could have been.

Swedish Politician Says It’s “Crucial” For Young Swedes To Learn Arabic if They’re to be Successful

https://sputniknews.com/europe/201812191070815034-sweden-arabic-success/

true, switzerland is without a doubt >>

but since that is rather far away i look for more realistic things for orientation
for example the austrian pension system....so much better than ours, its fairer, people pay less and get significantly more in return

there is no shame in looking into things your neighbor is doing better