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Mar 23 2022 03:24am
Quote (Goomshill @ Mar 23 2022 08:00am)
So the Russian stock market re-opened yesterday for bond trading, and it didn't collapse. Yields spiked 20%, then dropped to 13% at close, the ruble holds down about 25% from before the invasion, interest rates are at 20%
Russia is clearly taking an economic hit so far, but the supposed catastrophic effects aren't manifesting. Considering the rest of the world is in problem territory (look at US inflation), they're doing worse, but not falling apart.

So this has been the full brunt of unrestrained economic warfare against Russia, the west pulling out all the stops to throw up a new iron curtain, and the result has been mediocre. Clearly not enough to stop Russia. And without the EU, India, China or mideast joining in the effort, Russia doesn't seem to face any looming threats. Joe Biden first promised that the threat of sanctions would forestall a Russian invasion, nevermind his opening the door by promising no military response. Then when that fell through, he promised these sanctions would cripple the Russian economy and bring them to their knees where they'd have no choice but to back off. Again, didn't happen. A big huff and a puff and didn't blow his house down.
If our approach isn't working, we should rethink it


they wont rethink it. they are not going to turn back time or take another road. instead they will follow the road they are on, wherever it may lead to.

This post was edited by ferdia on Mar 23 2022 03:24am
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Mar 23 2022 03:32am
Ukraine dictator Zelensky bans all pro-russian political opposition parties.

Euro consumes Russian Oil, and with the 500kkk profits gun and rockets and weapons of mass destruction are donated to Ukraine to target Russia. To force the expand of NATO to the east, lebensraum for Euro.

Germany goes back to WW2 armory budgets.

Ukraine forces have swastikas' on uniforms.




Thx you Biden.

This post was edited by Tommyvv on Mar 23 2022 03:37am
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Mar 23 2022 03:37am
Quote (Saucisson6000 @ Mar 23 2022 03:31am)
Nah, many are children and they are integrated with the mother, so it's less than 1.5k.
Some have money, family in other countries, and there's also this:
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/asked-sussex-mps-d-house-050000269.html
100k the first day.

Btw I'm sure you and Black XistenZ have a spot at home for an old lady. bb)


for a supermodel perhaps

jk

i think you clearly underestimate the cost, in germany kids and teenagers are usually more expensive than adults
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Mar 23 2022 04:15am
Quote (Tommyvv @ 23 Mar 2022 12:32)
Ukraine dictator Zelensky bans all pro-russian political opposition parties.

Euro consumes Russian Oil, and with the 500kkk profits gun and rockets and weapons of mass destruction are donated to Ukraine to target Russia. To force the expand of NATO to the east, lebensraum for Euro.

Germany goes back to WW2 armory budgets.

Ukraine forces have swastikas' on uniforms.
https://media-cldnry.s-nbcnews.com/image/upload/t_fit-1240w,f_auto,q_auto:best/newscms/2022_09/3538617/220303-azov-batallion-ukraine-mn-1450.jpg



Thx you Biden.


I've recognized at least ten ethnic jews on this photo, forgive me being a bit racist.
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Mar 23 2022 04:38am
Quote (Tommyvv @ Mar 23 2022 04:32am)
Ukraine dictator Zelensky bans all pro-russian political opposition parties.

Euro consumes Russian Oil, and with the 500kkk profits gun and rockets and weapons of mass destruction are donated to Ukraine to target Russia. To force the expand of NATO to the east, lebensraum for Euro.

Germany goes back to WW2 armory budgets.

Ukraine forces have swastikas' on uniforms.
https://media-cldnry.s-nbcnews.com/image/upload/t_fit-1240w,f_auto,q_auto:best/newscms/2022_09/3538617/220303-azov-batallion-ukraine-mn-1450.jpg



Thx you Biden.


Zelensky banned all the pro-Russian parties after the Russian dictator invaded their country???
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Mar 23 2022 04:38am
Also is Zelensky a dictator ? where did that come from ?
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Mar 23 2022 04:53am
Quote (ferdia @ Mar 23 2022 11:38am)
Also is Zelensky a dictator ? where did that come from ?


Quote (Santara @ Mar 23 2022 11:38am)
Zelensky banned all the pro-Russian parties after the Russian dictator invaded their country???


If you ban opposition political parties, you are a dictator.

Current goverment of Ukraine is a result of a 2014 coup, against pro-Russia goverment, supported bye lebensraum greed anti communist ''the west''.

Not even taking about this 2party miljardair democratic system in the USA, that resulted to Biden


But this is democratie at its finest.
Take you Pfizer 2.9%deathrate vaccine from same goverment to eurn your freedom

This post was edited by Tommyvv on Mar 23 2022 04:59am
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Mar 23 2022 05:28am
Wiki has this, still reading ~

Ukraine has a multi-party system with numerous political parties, in which no one party often has a chance of gaining power alone, and parties must work with each other to form coalition governments. In the (October 2014) Ukrainian parliamentary election 52 political parties nominated candidates.[1] In the nationwide (October 2015) local elections this number had grown to 132 political parties.[2]

Many parties in Ukraine have very small memberships and are unknown to the general public.[3] Party membership in Ukraine is lower than 1% of the population eligible to vote (compared to an average 4.7% in the European Union[4]).[5][6] National parties currently not represented in Ukraine's national parliament Verkhovna Rada do have representatives in municipal councils.[7][8][9][10] Small parties used to join in multi-party coalitions (electoral blocks) for the purpose of participating in parliamentary elections; but on November 17, 2011, the Ukrainian Parliament approved an election law that banned the participation of blocs of political parties in parliamentary elections.[11] Ukrainian society's trust of political parties is very low overall.[3][12] According to an April 2014 poll by Razumkov Centre 14.7%.[13] According to a February 2020 poll by again Razumkov Centre, more than 70% of respondents said they rather or completely did not trust political parties.[3]

The Ukrainian oligarchs play a key role in sponsoring of political parties and participation in every day politics.[14]

when I read the above and then look at those parties banned (again wiki) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Banned_political_parties_in_Ukraine i would challenge your assertions. I also see this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restrictions_on_political_parties

the UK banned political parties yet is not deemed a dictatorship.

TLDR: please provide some alternative source to evidence your claim that Zelensky is a dictator, or I and others will continue to refute this claim. I would say that Ukraine is fighting for its survival as an independant state and therefore banning a political party that would be overtly pro russian is a no brainer.

This post was edited by ferdia on Mar 23 2022 05:56am
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Mar 23 2022 05:54am
Quote (Lebanon961 @ 23 Mar 2022 07:04)
TL;DR Russia has no real and rational strategic interests in Ukraine, ya okay :)

I think the propaganda was less effective simply because full-fledged invasions are never popular and there is no simple reason the layman can understand. It is harder to do propaganda using convoluted arguments about geostrategy. The Russians tried to make a bullshit "simple" reason with cleaning Ukraine of Nazis thing, but were much less successful than US with WMDs :)


Of course Russia has an interest in turning Ukraine into a vassal state under a puppet government. Doesn't mean that this interest is legitimate or justification enough to invade their neighboring country and shell its hospitals and residential areas. :rolleyes:

The US argument with the WMDs in Iraq was evidently bullshit and consequently didn't gain a lot of traction either. France, Germany and Canada outright refused to participate. So the lead-up to the Iraq war actually confirms rather than disproves my argument that the success of war propaganda is heavily influenced by how much meat there actually is to the accusations.



Quote
In any case I don't think the trend of uproar in the West is shared by most of the world. China, India, Middle East, and more places around the world are more understanding of Russia's motivations than the average Westerners.

This is not surprising at all. It's part of human nature to pay more attention and to be more invested in crimes and crises in close proximity than ones taking place in far away countries. This is a war taking place on Europe's doorstep, it's geostrategically trageted at Europe and it's Europe that's bearing the brunt of the economic and human fallout

That other countries of the world don't care as much about this war as we Europeans does not, however, mean that they are more understanding of Russia's motivations. China is geopolitically aligned with Russia and is the main strategic beneficiary of this war, so they keep their mouths shut on war crimes and cover Russia's back in the diplomatic sphere. India is equivocating based on strategic and business interests, but most definitely dislikes the war and the war crimes. The Middle East doesn't care about human rights and loves how this war drives up oil prices and thus their revenue.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Mar 23 2022 06:08am
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Mar 23 2022 06:03am
Quote (Goomshill @ 23 Mar 2022 09:00)
So the Russian stock market re-opened yesterday for bond trading, and it didn't collapse. Yields spiked 20%, then dropped to 13% at close, the ruble holds down about 25% from before the invasion, interest rates are at 20%
Russia is clearly taking an economic hit so far, but the supposed catastrophic effects aren't manifesting. Considering the rest of the world is in problem territory (look at US inflation), they're doing worse, but not falling apart.

So this has been the full brunt of unrestrained economic warfare against Russia, the west pulling out all the stops to throw up a new iron curtain, and the result has been mediocre. Clearly not enough to stop Russia. And without the EU, India, China or mideast joining in the effort, Russia doesn't seem to face any looming threats. Joe Biden first promised that the threat of sanctions would forestall a Russian invasion, nevermind his opening the door by promising no military response. Then when that fell through, he promised these sanctions would cripple the Russian economy and bring them to their knees where they'd have no choice but to back off. Again, didn't happen. A big huff and a puff and didn't blow his house down.
If our approach isn't working, we should rethink it


It's far too early to conclude that the sanctions aren't working. It was always assumed that the Russian central bank would use its foreign currency reserves to back the rouble and its economy. Biden is a blathering fool who once again overpromised and underdelivered, but all pundits that I've read in various interviews before the invasion all agreed that sanctions wouldn't be able to stop the Russian war in the short-term. In the medium-term, these sanctions will become a lot more problematic to the Russians.

I've already explained why earlier in this thread. The tldr is that 1. the central bank will run out of foreign currency reserves sooner rather than later and 2. that Russia is fully dependent on a ton of high-tech products from the West, so that a lack of supplies/replacement will undermine their economy the more time goes on. And all of that has to be viewed against the backdrop of the West buying time to phase out Russian oil and as. Europe cannot get rid of Russian gas over night, but we're already working hard to come up with other sources. Therefore, Putin's strategic leverage and the main source of income of his system are getting undermined the longer this goes on.

The clock is ticking against them and the fact that it isn't up yet shouldn't be misinterpreted.
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