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Mar 27 2023 04:11am
Quote (ferdia @ Mar 27 2023 10:57am)
^DizzyBusiness

Well, all countries use propaganda. The video posted the other day by hamster re: tiktok (he was suspended 6 hours for posting that i think, or rather, for posting his view of it haha - bold boy, read the room!) shows that the issues involved are quite complex. Having looked at it in the round I think that the committee is right in their view of tiktok (ban it) but that they accepted that their own US big business is doing terrible things too (but that as its US business they are tolerating it more, even if they still hate what is happening and realize the risks re: data and their populace being fed certain narratives / opinions, even where those opinions are not paid/sponsored/from china).

The recent Gary Lineker episode in england (not sure if you are fully read on that) is a very good example of how governments are creating and strengthening their platforms for presenting their narrative. The bbc (originally the world standard of good factual news) was able to push back this time but it looks inevitable that it will eventually totally fall under the umbrella of agenda driven governments.

To use a metaphor, saturday morning cartoons were amazing. the government then decided to break the play date up forever and dictated how many cartoons we could watch. in response we got private channels that gave us cartoons all day long.

To bring it back on topic: while main stream media is now providing political / government narratives along with "news", which on viewing this topic its clear that some users accept it as gospel, the internet, and various platforms, are providing a service, news, with an alternate view/impression that is not palatable to the ruling governments even if its factual/relevant. In this regard while the likes of tiktok can be banned, there are simply so many like it that ultimately the goal of censorship (effectively what it is) and agenda driven news will simply result in the community (the world) diversifying, and potentially moving away from the regular news.

And the problem with that is when they move away from semi credible news outlets and go down the fox news / conspiracy sites rabbit holes.

so TLDR: Factual News is the main casualty here and banning companies will do little to keep people safe.
also TLDR: its war time but irrespective of that the propaganda machine is here to stay.


Propaganda is something only china, north korea and russia do. The free world doesn´t do such nefarious things.

Lemme eat my cheese burger in peace while i watch wedding bombings, please.
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Mar 27 2023 04:15am
Quote (ownyaah @ Mar 27 2023 11:11am)
Propaganda is something only china, north korea and russia do. The free world doesn´t do such nefarious things.

Lemme eat my cheese burger in peace while i watch wedding bombings, please.


I am mildly inclined to think that you were being sarcastic and that you reaffirm the belief that propaganda, good and bad, is practiced everywhere including in the western world. forgive me now but we have some very challenged people reading this thread and they might not get your sarcasm.

A minor add to my previous post, right to ban tiktok as it is compromised, while accepting all media platforms are compromised, therefore there is a real challenge that they are singling out one company but that this will be ineffective of ultimately keeping american people safe, for the reasons outlined (and therefore it would have been better if instead of banning it they regulated it).

kids in the playground, i want to play with all the other kids, no your different your not allowed, go play with your own friends, or, i want to play with all the other kids, ok fine, but you will be monitored.

This post was edited by ferdia on Mar 27 2023 04:20am
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Mar 27 2023 04:17am
Quote (ferdia @ 27 Mar 2023 18:15)
I am mildly inclined to think that you were being sarcastic and that you reaffirm the belief that propaganda, good and bad, is practiced everywhere including in the western world. forgive me now but we have some very challenged people reading this thread and they might not get your joke.


Let's call it Geo Political Marketing in the West . :lol:
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Mar 27 2023 04:57am
Quote (ferdia @ Mar 27 2023 06:57am)
^DizzyBusiness

Well, all countries use propaganda. The video posted the other day by hamster re: tiktok (he was suspended 6 hours for posting that i think, or rather, for posting his view of it haha - bold boy, read the room!) shows that the issues involved are quite complex. Having looked at it in the round I think that the committee is right in their view of tiktok (ban it) but that they accepted that their own US big business is doing terrible things too (but that as its US business they are tolerating it more, even if they still hate what is happening and realize the risks re: data and their populace being fed certain narratives / opinions, even where those opinions are not paid/sponsored/from china).
^the bans in this forum dont make much sense to me, seems like the least toxic people have the most problems with them lol, I've only gotten one for example lol. Tiktok ban is fine with me, but just a bandaid solution to make it look like they know what they are doing IMO, most of those fossils couldn't use Google.

The recent Gary Lineker episode in england (not sure if you are fully read on that) is a very good example of how governments are creating and strengthening their platforms for presenting their narrative. The bbc (originally the world standard of good factual news) was able to push back this time but it looks inevitable that it will eventually totally fall under the umbrella of agenda driven governments.
^not really familiar I will check it out

To use a metaphor, saturday morning cartoons were amazing. the government then decided to break the play date up forever and dictated how many cartoons we could watch. in response we got private channels that gave us cartoons all day long.
^I dont remember limits on amounts of cartoons being implemented here but the government did get involved by making rules surrounding what could be shown and how, things like bugs bunny were deemed inappropriate because of the cartoon violence it was thought kids would emulate, used to work in that industry and rules are pretty nuts now.

To bring it back on topic: while main stream media is now providing political / government narratives along with "news", which on viewing this topic its clear that some users accept it as gospel, the internet, and various platforms, are providing a service, news, with an alternate view/impression that is not palatable to the ruling governments even if its factual/relevant. In this regard while the likes of tiktok can be banned, there are simply so many like it that ultimately the goal of censorship (effectively what it is) and agenda driven news will simply result in the community (the world) diversifying, and potentially moving away from the regular news.
^agree with this and it is pretty evident from the amount of listeners and viewers independent media get vs establishment media, it is a dying industry IMO

And the problem with that is when they move away from semi credible news outlets and go down the fox news / conspiracy sites rabbit holes.
^big problem for sure, you can basically support any position you want now, and there will be some person in the world who has a website dedicated to telling you why you are right lol

so TLDR: Factual News is the main casualty here and banning companies will do little to keep people safe.
also TLDR: its war time but irrespective of that the propaganda machine is here to stay.
^ :(



I tried your style of replying!

This post was edited by DizzyBusiness on Mar 27 2023 05:01am
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Mar 27 2023 05:00am
Quote (ownyaah @ Mar 27 2023 07:11am)
Propaganda is something only china, north korea and russia do. The free world doesn´t do such nefarious things.

Lemme eat my cheese burger in peace while i watch wedding bombings, please.


:rofl:

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Mar 27 2023 05:10am
Quote (ferdia @ 27 Mar 2023 11:57)
The recent Gary Lineker episode in england (not sure if you are fully read on that) is a very good example of how governments are creating and strengthening their platforms for presenting their narrative. The bbc (originally the world standard of good factual news) was able to push back this time but it looks inevitable that it will eventually totally fall under the umbrella of agenda driven governments.


what exactly do you think happened there? how did the BBC "push back" in your opinion?! in reality, a football commentator, who is NOT a BBC employee, made some critical remarks on social media concerning a specific policy. then conservative politicians used their ties with the network to pressure it into sanctioning said commentator.
the push back that happened was NOT by the BBC - they actually caved to tory pressure and suspended him. the ones who fought back were lineker himself, not intimidated by the silencing attempt, his colleagues, who showed remarkable solidarity and backbone, as well as the public.
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Mar 27 2023 06:11am
Quote (DizzyBusiness @ Mar 27 2023 11:57am)
I tried your style of replying!


logical and it is welcome to see people providing a clear view. we just need people that dont agree to adopt the same approach (i.e. being logical).

Quote (fender @ Mar 27 2023 12:10pm)
what exactly do you think happened there? how did the BBC "push back" in your opinion?! in reality, a football commentator, who is NOT a BBC employee, made some critical remarks on social media concerning a specific policy. then conservative politicians used their ties with the network to pressure it into sanctioning said commentator.
the push back that happened was NOT by the BBC - they actually caved to tory pressure and suspended him. the ones who fought back were lineker himself, not intimidated by the silencing attempt, his colleagues, who showed remarkable solidarity and backbone, as well as the public.


you outlined very concisely what happened. for visibility the facts he outlined are aligned to my impression of the events. I dont think fenders post is denying that the BBC is, unfortunately, already, to a degree, compromised. the nuance to my original post was: "it looks inevitable that it will eventually totallyfall under the umbrella of agenda driven governments."

Fender's post suggests that the BBC was in no way supporting gary. My counter arguement to that yes this is true but they could just as easily have doubled down, but they did not. in this regard my comment remains relevant. the bbc is compromised, not dead yet.

The story relates to migrants / asylum seekers coming to the UK, which is a popular topic in english politics. A new law was being proposed, gary questioned this on social media, his terminology was deemed not acceptable in certain circles. he was suspended, and the rest you can youtube. The political debate on the matter was quite interesting to listen to, theresa may in particular (you can easily youtube theresa may, gary lineker, migrants).

also for fender: a correction to my post, it was incorrect for me to say that the BBC pushed back, your post sums up the events, my overarching theme was that the BBC was compromised (almost completely at senior level), but not yet dead.

This post was edited by ferdia on Mar 27 2023 06:39am
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Mar 27 2023 06:29am
it was my understanding you are German

i would ask, parallel to the BBC, what is happening in German news ? Is it the same as is happening in the BBC ?

Relating to Broadcasters and content or news providers, is there no journalistic inquiry going on relating to Nord Stream 2 ? I am not fluent in German which is the only reason why I am asking you. Feel free to comment as you see fit (or not to comment). Germany really looks to be hard done here. As an example, I see no reports in the likes of Der Spiegel as related to the Nord Stream investigation, which I would have thought was a topic of great social inquiry. Are any of the main stream, reputable news outlets making any comment other then what we are seeing elsewhere (i.e. silence on the matter, no questioning of the US veto on allowing an international investigation etc).

This post was edited by ferdia on Mar 27 2023 06:34am
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Mar 27 2023 06:38am
Quote (DizzyBusiness @ Mar 27 2023 06:00am)
:rofl:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKXSEX_P-qk


Lol, this has more patriotic appeal than that goofy NFL messaging or nerds on a boat pretending to play with robots. Sign me up. Annual stipend of Big Macs all I need.
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Mar 27 2023 08:16am
Quote (ferdia @ 27 Mar 2023 14:29)
^fender it was my understanding you are German

i would ask, parallel to the BBC, what is happening in German news ? Is it the same as is happening in the BBC ?

Relating to Broadcasters and content or news providers, is there no journalistic inquiry going on relating to Nord Stream 2 ? I am not fluent in German which is the only reason why I am asking you. Feel free to comment as you see fit (or not to comment). Germany really looks to be hard done here. As an example, I see no reports in the likes of Der Spiegel as related to the Nord Stream investigation, which I would have thought was a topic of great social inquiry. Are any of the main stream, reputable news outlets making any comment other then what we are seeing elsewhere (i.e. silence on the matter, no questioning of the US veto on allowing an international investigation etc).


really? you mean english articles or in general? because there are countless spiegel articles in german you can find about it with just a five second google search. basically every major news outlet has reported on virtually every new development, every speculation and theory regarding the issue.

in general, i'd say we have a pretty diverse media landscape, covering politics from many different (liberal / conservative / socialist / progressive...) angles, and our public broadcasters are rather decent at selecting and presenting news without a partisan slant.
i'm sure anti-vaxxers like ampoo would strongly disagree with that assessment, baselessly claiming they are in cahoots with every party that rejected covid denial and refused to misinform the public in the name of "free speech" (so basically every german party except some fringe right-wing radicals), but when it comes to our major parties, there is not one that has any such direct influence on their reporting as the conservatives have in the UK.

to be clear, i'm not saying everything is perfect here. for example, there is a lot of monopolising going on within the struggling print media, which will inevitably result in a decline of diversity, but again, i don't see our public stations undermined by one particular political party.
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