big surprise... you "score" everything in favour of war apologists and against reasonable people, you weirdo.
you frame everything that way, you interpret everything that way, you present everything that way. you're biased af.

further proof?



incredibly biased framing. the neutral / objective take on the issue would be "ukraine's desire to join NATO" - but you chose to spin it in a way that better aligns with your braindead "russia just HAS to murder tens of thousands of innocent civilians because evil NATO aggressively expanded towards it" narrative.

Why dont you read the back and forth between those two users and, from a logic standpoint, determine who won the argument. Your not meant to score based on who your friend is, or which position aligns to your ideology, you score based on facts. Refuting what was said (and proving your point) is how you win a debate. Deflecting does not. This applies to both of your statements. conceding a point is something you dont appear to be good at.

Position :



Response :



Counter Argument :



Response:



The final response is a deflection, and does in no way refute the claims made, therefore Malopox's argument won that discussion. This should not be hard to grasp.

Finally I had also weighed in refuting the deflection in part with this:



This post was edited by ferdia on Mar 23 2023 06:58am

Ukraine is definitely not gone as global grains exporter. See eg interviews with management of Nibulon/Kernel who are trying to adjust to this new war economy.

https://odessa-journal.com/interview-with-andriy-vadaturskyy-investment-in-izmail-port-demining-of-fields-and-fight-against-grain-illegal-trade-to-exploit-the-future/

Mykolaiv/Odessa ports have not been taken over and are exporting grains as a part of grain deal. I also understand that a big chunk has been rerouted via intermodal (containers on rail). Ukranian exports are vital to livelihood of millions in North Africa/Middle East (Tunisia, Egypt, Algeria as well as African countries like Sudan, Ethiopia and etc).

The question is what kind of yield they will achieve in their autumn harvest as I understand winter planting has been disturbed by winter campaigns around Kharkov.

Depending on the outcome we will see where food inflation in Europe (and other countries ofcourse) will go. If people go hungry in those emerging markets that depend on Ukranian grain imports - they will start toppling their governments.

all of that is logical and neatly ties in a bow your argument very well.

This post was edited by ferdia on Mar 23 2023 07:05am

So invading a country, raping, torturing , kidnapping children and killing people is in the grey area now because of power politics that happened before the attack?
If we base our morals on that assumption every country worldwide has a reason to attack someone. Here we come Südtirol.

An enabling, malingering narcissist.

On a side news which might affect the support of this current war effort by United States led coalition.
Which I need to get some comments from

The current economy of the United States is going in a downward spiral. 3 banks failed and about 80 more incoming potentially. The US government is trying to save their current domestic situation. That being said , moving forward the banking system should still be rather robust , however the Biden government needs to step in.
Potentially FED is going to raise another 1% ? Next year is election year and the Republicans are going to make it difficult for the government to continue to fund this current conflict ?

United States will need more money from Allies to continue to support Ukraine. With interest rates raised , a lot of funds from EU is flowing back to the United States and a lot of companies are moving to the US to setup shop which will have a rather gloomy effect on EU.

Part of the Credit Suisse breakdown is also due to the United States leading a blanket sanction on all Russian citizens whether or not they are connected to the government. Swiss banks used to operate on neutral grounds, however for the past 10 years or so after 2008 , Panama papers and now the Ukraine / Russia conflict. They are being pressured to follow the sanctions that the West have done.

Russian assets and monies are confiscated. Middle East and Chinese money are being taken out in unprecedented amount out of the Swiss system flowing into Singapore , Hong Kong, Australia and Canada.

Obama's presidency have created an extra 8 trillion debt in 8 years, Trump's presidency created a 8 trillion debt in 4 years . And within 2 years of Biden's government they created a 7 trillion debt. ( I think these are the numbers )

Moving forward , how long can the help from the West flowing into Ukraine last without significantly screwing up the Economy of US / EU and in the East Japan etc etc.
And will the US Led West minimize their help be it monies or Weapons to Ukraine, how long can Ukraine hold.

Just on top of my head.

The invasion of Ukraine by Russia, should be condemned by everyone. What Russia is doing to the Ukrainian people is not defend-able and as one politician put it, in 100 years a Russian leader no doubt will have to apologize for what is happening today.

Ignoring the very long (10 years +) build up to this war however is wrong. There are ample video's in this topic and online (youtube for starters) to support the notion that no single party is to blame here and that mistakes were made by alot of people.

===

Hamster I stand by my position that it is unlikely that the US will change its position of supporting Ukraine. The only caveat there is that Trump is not re-elected (as he is anti-war). As the US have said, the money spent on Ukraine is a drop in the ocean and they are also likely to increasing their military spending for the rest of the decade, annually.

This post was edited by ferdia on Mar 23 2023 07:22am

And yet here you are enabling those that support what you just said should be condemned. Shameless collaborator.

You dont have to keep reaffirming that your one dimensional. i get it already ok.