I sincerely think this is an illusory argument, at no time we have proof of Putin's "good intentions". In reality at that time he did not have the power he has now and he was only there as a messenger of the Russian elites who NEVER wanted to let the rule of law (= our democracies) to settle in Russia.

we went over this 6 months ago and provided alot of evidence to support it in this topic. it is freely available on line and on Netflix where english and european politicans were interviewed relating to this. you dont have to believe it if you dont want to but it is a historical fact. Putin turned away from Europe in the early 2000's after we rebuffed him. I am not saying it was wrong to rebuff him, im sure there were good reasons at the time.

Also I am not talking about Putin's good intentions or not, I am talking about the EU rebuffing him. We had a chance and we blew it. it is what it is, no use arguing over split milk. You said it yourself, in the early 2000's putin did not have unlimited power and we could have steered him in a more palatable direction of mutual benefit. Instead we said no and watched as he forged his own path, alone. *shrugs* it is what it is.

This post was edited by ferdia on Mar 21 2023 11:44am

This is not true, to pretend is the first thing you do during negotiations so you can know other side's plans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum

This is what Putin violated.

We are actually talking about different things here.

someone smite the fuck out of putin already wtf

=> Russia was never serious in trying to join Nato or West. Russia decided on its own that it’s not interested, and why ? Because they had tons of nukes and a well established ruling structure that simply didn't want democracy to disturb it.

Emperical proof, thanks.

You want transparency ？ I can tell you in pm.
I m partly involved

The French are currently burning and smashing France because their American puppet regime just undemocratically forced the passage of legislation that none of the demos wants.

Russia is more democratic than France, not even close.

really ?

anyway:

China’s President Xi Jinping has said he signed an agreement with his Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin bringing their ties into a “new era” of cooperation, as the two leaders called for “responsible dialogue” to resolve the Ukraine crisis. “We signed a statement on deepening the strategic partnership and bilateral ties which are entering a new era,” Xi said following talks with Putin in the Kremlin on Tuesday.

He added that China and Russia should work more closely to push forward greater “practical cooperation”. In turn, Putin said “all agreements have been reached” and that economic cooperation between Moscow and Beijing was a “priority” for Russia.The talks were intended to cement the “no limits” partnership the two leaders announced last February, less than three weeks before Russia invaded Ukraine.

On the conflict, the Chinese leader said Beijing was “guided by the principles of the United Nations … and promote a peaceful settlement” of fighting in Ukraine. “We are always for peace and dialogue,” he added. A joint statement included familiar accusations against the West – that Washington was undermining global stability and NATO was barging into the Asia-Pacific region. Putin said a Chinese proposal to end the conflict could be used as the basis of a peace settlement, but that the West and Kyiv were not yet ready.

there is a bit more detail in a BBC article relating to specific's

According to Russian state media, the two leaders also:

Signed two joint documents - one detailing plans for economic co-operation and one on plans to deepen the Russia-China partnership
Reached an agreement on a planned pipeline in Siberia to deliver Russian gas to China via Mongolia
Agreed that nuclear war "must never be unleashed"
Discussed their concern at the new Aukus pact - a defence agreement between Australia, the UK and US
Expressed concern over Nato's growing presence in Asia on "military and security issues"

a final snippet:

A joint statement released by China and Russia after the meeting between the two leaders said the close partnership between the two countries did not constitute a "military-political alliance".

finally, being pedantic now, England admitted to supplying Ukraine with Nuclear weapons -

Mr Putin also used the press conference to accuse the West of deploying weapons with a "nuclear component" and said Russia would be "forced to react" if the UK sent shells made with depleted uranium to Ukraine. .

The UK's Ministry of Defence said depleted uranium was a "standard component" which had "nothing to do with nuclear weapons".

This post was edited by ferdia on Mar 21 2023 05:56pm