https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War#/media/File:State_positions_Iraq_war.svg

.

i think you can add even more deaths that occured as a direct consequence of the invasion

after the occupation the country went directly into an insurgency, then civil war and ISIS

"Ceasefire bad, peace bad, only on our terms and when we decide should there be peace"

https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1637850299044962305

We're getting gg no re'd on an international stage so badly right now lmao. First the Iran-Saudi peace brokered by China. Now this attempt at peace by China. Even if it's a dishonest faint by Russia-China, still shows us in a really bad light.



I don't want to speculate on what things would have looked like in Iraq if there was no invasion but there are so many negative side effects to the invasion/occupation. For example, ISIS has roots in the Ba'ath party, Saddams ruling party that we ousted. Us displacing them from power in a way triggered the formation of ISIS, which led to 300+k deaths. Now I doubt those deaths are being counted as due to the Iraq war but we see consequences that are far reaching in damage. The Iraq war was one of the biggest mistakes in US geopolitics of the last 30-40 years IMO.

This post was edited by ofthevoid on Mar 20 2023 02:07pm

Full Video here (he spoke well).



This post was edited by ferdia on Mar 20 2023 02:25pm

Wouldn't a ceasefire also give Ukraine a chance to rest and refit their troops? Would also give them time to receive all the arms being sent, train their tank crews to use western tanks, repair energy infrastructure.

Seems to me the only reason not to want a ceasefire is the hope that Russia will give in due to the sanctions placed on them, but that doesn't seem very likely to me, especially with China getting more involved.

I think the real reason is purely optics. Both side benefit from a cease-fire, Ukraine IMO more so as it gives them more time to train on western hardware. We (the US) simply cannot let China lead on something that will be taken as an immense positive. Imagine if China is actually the country that accomplishes this and the swagger and image it lends to them globally. We have to have this win because we are the ones hugely invested. Realistically we probably want to propose/lead some peace plan maybe later this year or early next year. If this is stolen right from under us it would be a huge loss.

these people dont realise that they make no sense anymore

we know by now that russia cant do shit except their oldschool tactics, they had years to prepare this war and they stink

however for ukraine an extended ceasefire would be extremely favorable, dig in and the full arsenal will be ready soon

you cant possibly expose yourself more than this, its literally a confession that the US want a prolonged war to weaken russia



at least we know whats important

gotta send THOUSANDS more to their deaths so china wont get a diplomatic win over the west

disgusting, but i appreciate the honesty

For sure there's no excuse for the Bush Republican party Iraq war 2...

Ukraine is about to make its counter offensive very soon and only a fool would believe in the "pacific intentions" of Russia/China...

well tbh the US has to my mind doubled down. there will be no peace plan (in 2023 or 2024, in my opinion). Blinken said it - they will not countenance anything other then all of ukraine liberated.
Also I do agree with meanwhile here, Ukraine are going to do a counter offensive, and I expect they will get huge gains (which will prompt a further Russian conscription).

This post was edited by ferdia on Mar 20 2023 03:40pm

Good question. I think the idea is that Ukraine might gain the upper hand temporarily in late spring once all the new, Western military equipment arrives, similar to what they had in late summer/early fall of last year once the Western long-range artillery had arrived. Back then, they were able to exploit weaknesses and a lack of personnel on Russia's side by pushing their artillery out of range of Kharkiv and taking back Lyman and Kherson city. I'm not sure that's sound logic though, since Russia doesn't seem to be nearly as understaffed now as they were back then.

Another possible explanation is that Ukraine is afraid that establishing an official ceasefire would come with increased diplomatic pressure to stick to the ceasefire and not resume the fighting, which would increase the likelihood that the conflict becomes frozen and the current status quo becomes internationally accepted. In the end, this would probably lead to Ukraine having to give up all territory currently held by Russia. The Ukrainians are no idiots, they know full well that the Western public will get increasingly weary of this war and isn't emotionally or strategically attached to the goal of preserving as much of Ukraine's territory as possible. Let's be honest here: the primary interest of the West is to neuter and wear down Russia's military; we don't actually care if Ukraine takes back Melitopol, Soledar or Sieverodonetsk.