d2jsp
Log InRegister
d2jsp Forums > Off-Topic > General Chat > Political & Religious Debate > Russia / Ukraine
Prev1242524262427242824294472Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll
Member
Posts: 39,357
Joined: Feb 14 2007
Gold: 2,009.99
Mar 20 2023 09:20am
So, who's winning the war ?
Member
Posts: 51,623
Joined: Jan 19 2007
Gold: 45,309.00
Warn: 10%
Mar 20 2023 09:21am
Quote (Meanwhile @ Mar 20 2023 03:14pm)
Oh, this smart move ... Like it's the first time you are twisting things that way:

" Look, because Ukraine & Nato didnt surrender to the not that bad Russia (China has alot of peace in a bucket plan btw): RUINS ! NUKES ! THE US DESTROYED UKRAINE !"
"... Butt butt how can we stop US to destroy UKRAINE, really ? :o "

Deplorable. Bullshit.


I will be brief:

My position is that based on the positions held by the US, the West, Ukraine, and Russia (all with their own very good reasons) it is inevitable that the war is going to get very very very bad in 2023 and 2024. Without aportioning blame "who caused this" I am instead saying "regardless of who caused this, its about to get a hell of a lot worse".

Most people should be able to agree with that statement, but some people will say Russia had no good reason to be afraid of Nato.

Quote (IgoSoHard @ Mar 20 2023 03:20pm)
So, who's winning the war ?


Nobody is winning, but its about to take a nose dive I think.

This post was edited by ferdia on Mar 20 2023 09:24am
Member
Posts: 42,606
Joined: Aug 25 2008
Gold: 46,068.00
Mar 20 2023 09:24am
Quote (ferdia @ 20 Mar 2023 23:21)
I will be brief:

My position is that based on the positions held by the US, the West, Ukraine, and Russia (all with their own very good reasons) it is inevitable that the war is going to get very very very bad in 2023 and 2024. Without aportioning blame "who caused this" I am instead saying "regardless of who caused this, its about to get a hell of a lot worse".

Most people should be able to agree with that statement.


Shall we give this 2 to 3 weeks ? to reaffirm your statement?

Member
Posts: 66,666
Joined: May 17 2005
Gold: 17,384.69
Mar 20 2023 09:32am
Quote (ferdia @ 20 Mar 2023 16:21)
I will be brief:
My position is that based on the positions held by the US, the West, Ukraine, and Russia (all with their own very good reasons) it is inevitable that the war is going to get very very very bad in 2023 and 2024. Without aportioning blame "who caused this" I am instead saying "regardless of who caused this, its about to get a hell of a lot worse".
Most people should be able to agree with that statement, but some people will say Russia had no good reason to be afraid of Nato.
Nobody is winning, but its about to take a nose dive I think.


There's not much any other choice that supporting Ukraine against the invader doing war crimes. If there's a "who's fault" it is only Putin & associated elite (a very small groupe).

------------------


Btw, found this, true ?

Member
Posts: 14,677
Joined: Jun 27 2010
Gold: 100,701.50
Mar 20 2023 10:21am
Quote (ferdia @ Mar 20 2023 04:07pm)
Do you understand how those inter-relate?

after all the toxicity of yesterday, I might as well stand up to be fired at again today, so without further ado - the latest john meirscheimer video. Most ppl wont watch this video, or wont agree with this video, or wont consider this video, or decry this video as russian propaganda.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7D6usfNUVI


Very good analysis from a smart and educated man but it's all common sense. Ongoing NATO expansion East is a bad idea and NATO aint stopping but doubling down, willing to fight to the last Ukrainian.

The problem is that almost everyone in the West thinks that the West = the good guys and superior to the Russians therefore have the right to do whatever they please and Russia = the bad guys and inferior to the West therefor should just fuck off / get destroyed / and so on.

Reality is that this narrative is pushed by our Western leaders and spread by MSM, it's simply propaganda and indoctrination. And results in brainwashed people like , just look at his shit reply following your post, lol

He continues to trash legitimate and well respected sources like I've pointed out several times. He's simply unable to debate in good faith, you can forget about that.
Member
Posts: 66,666
Joined: May 17 2005
Gold: 17,384.69
Mar 20 2023 10:46am
"Do you know we have people in jail for calling the war a war?"

Future Jet Fighter pilot at 0:37

/e heavily russophobic survey :lol:



This post was edited by Meanwhile on Mar 20 2023 10:52am
Member
Posts: 33,663
Joined: May 9 2009
Gold: 3.33
Mar 20 2023 11:03am
Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Mar 19 2023 11:19pm)
Blair is complicit in war crimes. This is not a conspiracy.
Ask David Kelly how Alistair Campbell instructed him to provide a pretense to invade.

Deflect all you want, your boys in Westminster are some top-grade Eton schooled warmongers, and you bend at the knees and vote em in everytime :lol:


Tony Blair went to a state school you simple minded SNPbot. As did most of his cabinet and the current Labour shadow cabinet.

Quote (fender @ Mar 20 2023 12:06am)
can you link me that documentary? does it make a credible case that they intentionally and successfully mislead blair? or could the evidence (which we obviously all know was bs today) have been bad, but he was in the know or at the very least suspected it, and just "accepted" it regardless to have plausible deniability, in case the decision he was going to make anyway turned out to be a mistake? because that's my impression - and it's what many people speculated at the time.

again, there were many parties that rejected the flimsy "evidence" and insisted on a diplomatic solution - despite all the pressure from america.

to be clear, i'm not saying the evidence being bad is conjecture, i'm saying i find it doubtful that the head of intelligence, regardless of political affiliation, could just easily dupe a PM into such a meaningful and terrible decision with some fake evidence - as if blair, who definitely isn't a moron, didn't have any loyal high-ranking sources within the intelligence community who advised him according to their best knowledge, rather than their own personal agenda.

even if i gave blair all the benefit of the doubt, which you so generously grant him for obvious reasons, i'd still say that an ICC that wanted to be a meaningful and impartial institution should have tried him (as well as heads of british intelligence)...


regarding saddam: he obviously was a terrible human being, a cruel despot, a mass murderer, who most definitely "deserved" to die - but let's not forget who backed and armed him in the first place, and for which reasons (ofc the US and the UK, in order to attack iran and regain control over their oil), and how just deposing him, without a sound strategy for iraq's future, that would predictably plunge the whole region (which hussein undeniably "stabilised", albeit by cruel and inhumane means) into utter chaos.

maybe just invading the country based on lies and rage, trying to hunt that fucker down while leaving behind a trail of death and devastation, wasn't the way to go about it...


Dearlove/Scarlett didn't intentionally mislead Blair, they just said our intelligence points to existence of WMD. Yeah, Blair probably didn't ask for details of every single source, but no leader does. They ask 'how sure are you' and if they say a strong view then you have to take it into account. The bottom line is that MI6 are more responsible for confirming the accuracy of their sources than a PM is.

What 'obvious reasons'? Please tell me how biased I am because Blair is British when I have been nothing but scathing of the last 13 years of government...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/brand/m001k0ch
Member
Posts: 3,230
Joined: May 4 2013
Gold: 1,600.00
Mar 20 2023 11:23am
Early pages of this topic surely aged like a fine wine. From people claiming there is no invasion, to people being scared of russia, and inevitable "glass parking" across entire US :D

we are all so lucky russia is so dumb and weak, and that their entire military budget in last 20 years they spent on vodka and yachts in the "rotten west"

Quote (ferdia @ Mar 20 2023 04:21pm)
the war is going to get very very very bad in 2023 and 2024. Without aportioning blame "who caused this" I am instead saying "regardless of who caused this, its about to get a hell of a lot worse".


russia is far weaker than we all anticipated, they spent last .. 5 months? trying to take city the size of single Walmart, by sending wave after wave after wave of human meat. They have no weapons comparable to NATO weapons, their soldiers don't want to be there, their economy is collapsing. They will bleed out in next years and at best they will keep Crimea and Donbas
Member
Posts: 19,647
Joined: Apr 13 2016
Gold: 32,517.50
Mar 20 2023 11:48am
Quote (dro94 @ Mar 20 2023 05:03pm)
Tony Blair went to a state school you simple minded SNPbot. As did most of his cabinet and the current Labour shadow cabinet.



Dearlove/Scarlett didn't intentionally mislead Blair, they just said our intelligence points to existence of WMD. Yeah, Blair probably didn't ask for details of every single source, but no leader does. They ask 'how sure are you' and if they say a strong view then you have to take it into account. The bottom line is that MI6 are more responsible for confirming the accuracy of their sources than a PM is.

What 'obvious reasons'? Please tell me how biased I am because Blair is British when I have been nothing but scathing of the last 13 years of government...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/brand/m001k0ch


Really shilling for Tony Blair after half a million Iraqis died and the country was left completely fucked and remains so.

Typical British mindset of not reading the room at all, ignorant guffs.
Member
Posts: 33,663
Joined: May 9 2009
Gold: 3.33
Mar 20 2023 12:14pm
Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Mar 20 2023 05:48pm)
Really shilling for Tony Blair after half a million Iraqis died and the country was left completely fucked and remains so.

Typical British mindset of not reading the room at all, ignorant guffs.


Iraq was 'fucked' before Blair and probably will always be fucked regardless of Blair. Saddam would have butchered more of his own people and maybe even started another war with Iran, then people like you would have been the first to blame Blair for not bombing them had he not intervened. The deposition of Saddam actually led to the normalisation of relations between Iraq and Iran.

Arguably, the occupation was far worse than the invasion itself, and this was wholly America-led, but then again, understanding nuances such as these does not come easily to simpletons.

This post was edited by dro94 on Mar 20 2023 12:14pm
Go Back To Political & Religious Debate Topic List
Prev1242524262427242824294472Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll