A shill is a hustler or con-person who tries to convince other people to buy something or think something is great (shilling). The shill has ulterior motives for their actions, usually because they are the actual seller or have something to gain if the product sells well.

I am providing a backgroud to how we got here. I am explaining the motives of each side, I am suggesting to people that they look at this conflict from more then 1 angle. Understanding the Russian mindset is 1 step closer to coming to an agreement to end the war. I have no expectations of you or meanwhile, noting our politicans walked out of his briefing, and grown adults spend more time laughing at his view rather then understanding it. You are free to hurl abuse safe in the knowledge that I wont respond in kind.

everyone interested in this war should be watching some of lavrov's video's noting they give a very good insight to the motives and position of russia. who we are at war with.

This post was edited by ferdia on Mar 12 2023 04:37am

Its a statement of fact as I see it.

You want a framework for debate around unproven notions that you claim to be facts, just like ya boy Lavrov.

The West (not just the US) has a rich history of replacing regimes all over the world. It's well documented. NATO expansion is also well documented. Do I need to go on?

YOUR narrative is bullshit and doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Unless you believe what MSM are throwing at you to convince you that you have to back this latest war, no questions asked. Tool

Your position re: What Boris did or did not do, is wrong. and proven wrong, via a video from Boris himself. The fact you could not conceed the point speaks volumes.
You refuse to provide a position as to what happened with NS2. You deride the hypothetical analysis and all the circumstantial evidence.
Your position as to the causes of this war is also not born out when factoring in all of the information we now have available to us.
You want proof of a thing, and when it was given you brushed it off.

You have been repeatedly invited to point to a video or article and say "this is wrong" and "here is why" and you have not done so.
user meanwhile can do this, and has done this repeatedly, and has been proven correct repeatedly and has disproven things said by me and others, repeatedly. if meanwhile can do this there is no reason why you cant either.

This post was edited by ferdia on Mar 12 2023 05:11am

A little off topic, made a topic , but not much people are talking about the thawing of relationship between Saudi and Iran, they will re open and rebuild their embassies within the next two months after their talk in Beijing.
Do you think such a situation can potentially happen between Russia and Ukraine ?

This post was edited by Hamsterbaby on Mar 12 2023 05:09am

No. there is literally zero chance of that. no going back in my opinion. the collossal loss of life, what has happened to ukraine, no way back. hatred for at least 100 years. I base this on historic similarities. you would have to look at other conflicts and see the time period of resumig normal relations to have a fair idea of a timeline for reconciliation. but no time soon is my best guess.

This post was edited by ferdia on Mar 12 2023 05:12am

Fair enough.
But the same thing can be said of between Japan and China. They were doing trade and visiting one another after China open up. So lets keep our fingers cross and hope for a positive outcome in the future.

Well Japan and China is what, 80 years ago ? By that same measure you can say France and Germany.

you have to understand as well, no matter how this ends it will not be pretty for anyone. so a return to normality in 15 years time is highly unlikely.

This post was edited by ferdia on Mar 12 2023 05:15am

Erroneous and misleading statement. Proof does not equate to hypothesis; Why is this such a difficult concept to accept?
You provide positions of your own and project them as the one true narrative; Its not a balanced way of debating anything, as much as you harp on at being bi-partisan.

Providing a platform for manufactured truth is akin to collaborating. It shouldn't be a surprise your cheerleading for war criminals as Lavrov is basically the poster boy of falsehoods.

It's the channel with all his recent sources. But if you have a channel with more and as recent, give a try.

I posted his fow news interviews yesterday, it's insane. Reality goes beyond fiction with this guy, defending him is auto-deletion.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2022/03/01/macgregor_nato_is_not_in_a_position_to_fight_russia_we_are_in_a_crisis_and_our_position_in_europe_is_at_risk.html
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2022/03/05/macgregor_zelensky_is_no_hero_hes_a_puppet_that_is_putting_his_own_population_at_unnecessary_risk.html

I almost pity him. Good riddance.



7 years after the ww2 and nazi horror:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Coal_and_Steel_Community

This post was edited by Meanwhile on Mar 12 2023 05:22am