d2jsp
Log InRegister
d2jsp Forums > Off-Topic > General Chat > Political & Religious Debate > Russia / Ukraine
Prev1236123622363236423655001Next
Closed New Topic New Poll
Member
Posts: 45,718
Joined: Aug 25 2008
Gold: 40,130.00
Mar 10 2023 08:13am
Quote (Prox1m1ty @ 10 Mar 2023 22:03)
It is completely a blame game, not under my instruction but yours and others; I read your post yesterday about how the riots in Georgia were a direct consequence of western influence. I'm paraphrasing here.


.


The reason why I made that statement, it was because I see the similarities with Hong Kong. If I was too quick with my words in regards to Georgia I apologize for the misunderstanding.

Why did I make those comparison ? I was involved with the Hong Kong Protest in 2019 and I was one of the first few groups of Protestors against the Extradition Bill which I think is retarded.
I went to workshops... and there is where I understood a lot better how such things work. Since I was quite vocal, I was invited. And also because I am a PR and not a Chinese National. It is easier for me to move around.

This post was edited by Hamsterbaby on Mar 10 2023 08:15am
Member
Posts: 9,695
Joined: Mar 2 2006
Gold: 1,590.00
Mar 10 2023 08:14am
Quote (Hamsterbaby @ 10 Mar 2023 14:17)
One of the United States Greatest Advantages to me is geographical position which i completely agree with you. Her two nearest neighbours are zero threat.
The greatest threat towards America now, apart from the Rise of the Chinese is actually her own people. The great political divide, the so called " woke culture " thinking that Maths is Racist, the far right , and when it comes to education, the famous affirmative action.


This is unironically the best comment I"ve seen in here over many pages of trolling by some bored guys from Poland. The only threat to the US at the moment is the internal politics consuming it from within. The "Rise of China" is happening because of that as well ultimately. If Chinese/Russians figure out how to break the petrodollar cycle of recycling Chinese purchasing power into treasuries - things will go very quick.

Nord Stream situation is tricky right now as it's an act of war against Europe so whoever done it is in for some nasty beating. Circumstantial evidence so far points to US/Ukrainan actors. My bet goes on Seymour Hersh's version of the story of an unauthorized action by professional saboteurs so neither President/Congress had to approve it / be aware of it / can feign ignorance pretty good and those professionals can be thrown under the bus and "dissapeared" quickly if shit really hits the fan.

Real question is how to get out of this mess:
* Ukranians have suffered for more than a year now with hundreds of thousands dead, millions displaced, economy ruined and recovery perspectives unclear.
* Russian casus belli for this war becomes more and more understood. I think they wanted a quick war a-la invasion of Panama by the US on "national security grounds" to get what they want and get out. Now Russians are cornered by sanctions / media propaganda and are fighting this not to "win" the war, but rather not to "lose the war" no matter how absurd this sounds. Russians truly cannot lose this as losing Crimea will probably not go down well internally and might potentially cause a collapse of the whole state which nobody wants. Trust me you guys in Poland dont want a failed state like Libya torn by civil war right on your border. I doubt Russians would nuke anything as this would immediately deprive them of India/China support (trade/intel/UN Security Council).
* Americans cant let Russians win as they are too deeply involved and has exposed their involvement completely. A win in Ukraine for Russians would mean that Putin won and snubbed the noses of those NATO generals despite NATO sanctions which might embolden him to challenge contested territories elsewhere (e.g. northern Kazakhstan).

I just dont see the needle moving anywhere unless some dramatic breakthrough happens in this war of attrition or another conflict elsewhere taking priority (e.g. Israel invading Iran and getting nuked).

My bet is that this will not end in 2023. If next winter will be devastating for Europe (energy scarcity/inflation) we might have a deal closer to US Elections in November 2024 as my bet is Biden will not get reelected and a Republican will win and make a deal.

Gas: Russian supplies so far have not been truly replaced and people are targeting 2026 as a realistic earliest target (new Qatar fields go online and new LNG terminals will be build / FLNGs delivered and connected to supply Germany). Reduction has been achieved through warmer than usual winter as well as demand destruction with businesses curtailing industrial production, people turning down thermostats, gas-to-oil, gas-to-coal, (gas-to-wood LOL!) switching. Solar panels/windmills will not save the industry. Nukes will not go online within 10-15 years. Funnily enough we need to keep in mind that electrification of Norway is projected to reduce amount of electricity they export to Germany from 2028 onwards which will put additional strain on their failed Energiewende policy. Oh an EC just banned ICE cars as of 2035 with not a single long-range EV truck in production yet. Elon Musk has only 12 years to produce enough trucks to save Europe from self-inflicted wounds.

What a time to be alive.

loved your comments in this thread, one of the few guys that gets it IMO.



Member
Posts: 20,044
Joined: Apr 13 2016
Gold: 32,397.50
Mar 10 2023 08:14am
Quote (ferdia @ Mar 10 2023 02:06pm)
see my edit.

It is not logical to blame all the woes on the world on one individual, nation, culture, religion or species.

I am just going to repeat what you just said: You Are Saying :

Ferdia espouses the narrative that the West (meaning The US and its Western Allies) is to blame for everything wrong in the world.

That is quite far removed from my position however.


Its something that you insinuate constantly. According to you nothing happens unless its at the behest of the West, NATO, US, POTUS; Use all of those interchangeably.
You can't just perpetually insinuate a narrative and when someone calls you out on it claim its not your agenda at all.

I mean you can, but that is weak conviction.

My issue is not even specifically with the examples being mentioned its the overriding presumption that the West is to blame for everything without literal evidence.
The presumptiveness is preventing proper objectivity.




This post was edited by Prox1m1ty on Mar 10 2023 08:21am
Member
Posts: 56,385
Joined: Jan 19 2007
Gold: 579,208.49
Mar 10 2023 08:23am
Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Mar 10 2023 02:14pm)
Its something that you insinuate constantly. According to you nothing happens unless its at the behest of the West, NATO, US, POTUS; Use all of those interchangeably.
You can't just perpetually insinuate a narrative and when someone calls you out on it claim its not your agenda at all.

I mean you can, but that is weak conviction.


This topic relates to the War in Ukraine. Therefore the actors involved are the US, Ukraine and Russia. There is a vast amount of history which predates this conflict, which on reading, explains US, Ukrainian and Russian motives.

Now, you are ignoring what I said above re: Nord Stream. Fine, I get that. But did you read the article I posted in this topic yesterday? What aspects of that article do you not agree with ? Do you believe that article was posted by Pro Russian individuals working in stanford university?

Finally, relating to evidence, I provided DOD documents, i directed you to the victoria nuland video, there are extensive diplomatic papers, all of which you are discrediting.

This post was edited by ferdia on Mar 10 2023 08:25am
Member
Posts: 4,147
Joined: Jun 30 2022
Gold: 6.42
Warn: 10%
Mar 10 2023 08:24am
Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Mar 10 2023 10:14am)
Its something that you insinuate constantly. According to you nothing happens unless its at the behest of the West, NATO, US, POTUS; Use all of those interchangeably.
You can't just perpetually insinuate a narrative and when someone calls you out on it claim its not your agenda at all.

I mean you can, but that is weak conviction.

My issue is not even specifically with the examples being mentioned its the overriding presumption that the West is to blame for everything without literal evidence.
The presumptiveness is preventing proper objectivity.


Objectivity

Everyone: here is the evidence the US blew up Nordstream

You: HOW COULD YOU SAY THIS ABOUT THE US?!?!?! JOE BIDEN IS TOO OLD TO BLOW UP THE PIPELINE!

This is what happens to your brain when the only thing you read is reddit.
Member
Posts: 20,044
Joined: Apr 13 2016
Gold: 32,397.50
Mar 10 2023 08:25am
Quote (DizzyBusiness @ Mar 10 2023 02:24pm)
Objectivity

Everyone: here is the evidence the US blew up Nordstream

You: HOW COULD YOU SAY THIS ABOUT THE US?!?!?! JOE BIDEN IS TOO OLD TO BLOW UP THE PIPELINE!

This is what happens to your brain when the only thing you read is reddit.


Not a single shred of evidence. Lmk

Quote (ferdia @ Mar 10 2023 02:23pm)
This topic relates to the War in Ukraine. Therefore the actors involved are the US, Ukraine and Russia. There is a vast amount of history which predates this conflict, which on reading, explains US, Ukrainian and Russian motives.

Now, you are ignoring what I said above re: Nord Stream. Fine, I get that. But did you read the article I posted in this topic yesterday? What aspects of that article do you not agree with ? Do you believe that article was posted by Pro Russian individuals working in stanford university?

Finally, relating to evidence, I provided DOD documents, i directed you to the victoria nuland video, there are extensive diplomatic papers, all of which you are discrediting.


No discrediting here. Just. Not. Evidence.

This post was edited by Prox1m1ty on Mar 10 2023 08:26am
Member
Posts: 45,718
Joined: Aug 25 2008
Gold: 40,130.00
Mar 10 2023 08:26am
Quote (Malopox @ 10 Mar 2023 22:14)
This is unironically the best comment I"ve seen in here over many pages of trolling by some bored guys from Poland. The only threat to the US at the moment is the internal politics consuming it from within. The "Rise of China" is happening because of that as well ultimately. If Chinese/Russians figure out how to break the petrodollar cycle of recycling Chinese purchasing power into treasuries - things will go very quick.

Nord Stream situation is tricky right now as it's an act of war against Europe so whoever done it is in for some nasty beating. Circumstantial evidence so far points to US/Ukrainan actors. My bet goes on Seymour Hersh's version of the story of an unauthorized action by professional saboteurs so neither President/Congress had to approve it / be aware of it / can feign ignorance pretty good and those professionals can be thrown under the bus and "dissapeared" quickly if shit really hits the fan.

Real question is how to get out of this mess:* Ukranians have suffered for more than a year now with hundreds of thousands dead, millions displaced, economy ruined and recovery perspectives unclear.
* Russian casus belli for this war becomes more and more understood. I think they wanted a quick war a-la invasion of Panama by the US on "national security grounds" to get what they want and get out. Now Russians are cornered by sanctions / media propaganda and are fighting this not to "win" the war, but rather not to "lose the war" no matter how absurd this sounds. Russians truly cannot lose this as losing Crimea will probably not go down well internally and might potentially cause a collapse of the whole state which nobody wants. Trust me you guys in Poland dont want a failed state like Libya torn by civil war right on your border. I doubt Russians would nuke anything as this would immediately deprive them of India/China support (trade/intel/UN Security Council).
* Americans cant let Russians win as they are too deeply involved and has exposed their involvement completely. A win in Ukraine for Russians would mean that Putin won and snubbed the noses of those NATO generals despite NATO sanctions which might embolden him to challenge contested territories elsewhere (e.g. northern Kazakhstan).

I just dont see the needle moving anywhere unless some dramatic breakthrough happens in this war of attrition or another conflict elsewhere taking priority (e.g. Israel invading Iran and getting nuked).

My bet is that this will not end in 2023. If next winter will be devastating for Europe (energy scarcity/inflation) we might have a deal closer to US Elections in November 2024 as my bet is Biden will not get reelected and a Republican will win and make a deal.

Gas: Russian supplies so far have not been truly replaced and people are targeting 2026 as a realistic earliest target (new Qatar fields go online and new LNG terminals will be build / FLNGs delivered and connected to supply Germany). Reduction has been achieved through warmer than usual winter as well as demand destruction with businesses curtailing industrial production, people turning down thermostats, gas-to-oil, gas-to-coal, (gas-to-wood LOL!) switching. Solar panels/windmills will not save the industry. Nukes will not go online within 10-15 years. Funnily enough we need to keep in mind that electrification of Norway is projected to reduce amount of electricity they export to Germany from 2028 onwards which will put additional strain on their failed Energiewende policy. Oh an EC just banned ICE cars as of 2035 with not a single long-range EV truck in production yet. Elon Musk has only 12 years to produce enough trucks to save Europe from self-inflicted wounds.

What a time to be alive.
^ofthevoid loved your comments in this thread, one of the few guys that gets it IMO.


Just to mention this quote and unquote.
The problem with the US and how the US affects the world is also because of this.

The US no longer have a strong and robust Bi Partisan Middle to work things out.

Ray Dalio mentioned this. Ray Dalio is one of my favorite guys and his company Bridgewater associates is one of the top investment companies in the world.

Video is below if anyone of of you wanna watch. Very informative.



, ,

This post was edited by Hamsterbaby on Mar 10 2023 08:27am
Member
Posts: 56,385
Joined: Jan 19 2007
Gold: 579,208.49
Mar 10 2023 08:26am
Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Mar 10 2023 02:25pm)
Not a single shred of evidence. Lmk


who do you think blew up nord stream?
and relating to the causes of this war, what constitutes "evidence" in your view?

/e watching it now

This post was edited by ferdia on Mar 10 2023 08:29am
Member
Posts: 4,147
Joined: Jun 30 2022
Gold: 6.42
Warn: 10%
Mar 10 2023 08:27am
Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Mar 10 2023 10:25am)
Not a single shred of evidence. Lmk


Lmao man....certainly is an ego boost reading your replies. Thanks I guess :rofl:
Member
Posts: 20,044
Joined: Apr 13 2016
Gold: 32,397.50
Mar 10 2023 08:29am
Quote (ferdia @ Mar 10 2023 02:26pm)
who do you think blew up nord stream?


Who I think did is irrelevant; Who I know did it is a completely impossible idea.
That is precisely the issue and I'm glad you allowed me to aphorize it; You and others conflate what you think to be true, and what you can prove to be true.

Quote (ferdia @ Mar 10 2023 02:26pm)
who do you think blew up nord stream?
and relating to the causes of this war, what constitutes "evidence" in your view?

/e ^hamsterbaby watching it now



What constitutes evidence? Really?

This post was edited by Prox1m1ty on Mar 10 2023 08:30am
Go Back To Political & Religious Debate Topic List
Prev1236123622363236423655001Next
Closed New Topic New Poll