Yeah well how did that end? Russia not winning overnight doesn't mean they are at an impasse. That said, I can't imagine Mariupolites have much to lose right now.

Probably different considering that the people in Grozny were Muslim and the west didn't give a single flying fuck about them for the most part.

That's the logical conclusion we can draw from what has happened in the regions of Ukraine that the Russians have taken so far. Abducting and torturing the mayor of Melitopol who led protests against the Russian occupiers, bombing Mariupol into the ground, forcing evacuees to flee eastward, onto the territory of their attackers and so on. And you surely don't want to argue that there would be more democracy, freedom of press or freedom of speech in an occupied Ukraine than in Russia itself. Hence, the crackdown on plurality, the censorship, the prosecution of dissenters and so on that we're witnessing these days in Russia are the bare mininum of what to expect for Ukraine if it falls to the Russians.





Of course not. As the saying goes: "the first thing to die in any war is the truth". We can still gauge the Ukrainian will to fight:

Plenty of people of Ukrainian descent in Western Europe are reporting that they're conflicted and would like to go to Ukraine to defend their home country, some of them actually did. There are no reports of Ukrainian men deserting or trying to flee their country in spite of the general mobilization. Their side has so far won all the strategically important battles of the war. Their side is clearly winning the war of pictures and propaganda. Or take a look at Kyiv: the city had a pre-war population of 2.9m, currently, it's 2.0m. So the majority of its population has stayed in the city although the war is inching closer and there are still safe, open passages out of the city. (The ones that the leaders of Poland, Czechia and Slovenia used to get into the city when they visited Zelensky a couple of days ago.)




Diplomacy works better from a position of strength. Once Zelensky signals weakness, once he signals that the Ukrainian will to fight has been broken, there's zero reason for the Russians stop their invasion until they get a complete and unconditional surrender.
What you are suggesting is, in essence, that the Ukrainians should surrender unconditionally immediately.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Mar 21 2022 06:05am

Chechens are the scum of the earth. Also, militant Chechens had committed terrorist attacks in Russian cities, so the Russian side had a much better justification for that war than they currently have for invading Ukraine.

when americans call other countrys scum 😂

So you have thousands of armed members directly under the jurisdiction of your country who can do whatever they want in separatists areas without your knowledge? Really? I am not talking about some skinheads or far rights who are represented everywhere. Those are paramilitary units who are allowed to kill and "bring" order. Imaginr 1000s of people indiscriminately killing republicans during the storm of the capitol or paramilitary units getting rid of BLM members during their protests. I mean come on, you can't relativate everything beyond recognition until it fits your narrative. The only reason they couldn't go full nazi was because around half of the population is Russian. They were "just" repressing them.
And guess who was arming,them to the teeth? Uncle Sam, of course.

This post was edited by babun1024 on Mar 21 2022 06:29am

agree with all that. however...


apologies if it is implied that your quote has been taken out of context, im just trying to be careful.

thats the same thing as saying americans, irish, germans, isarael's, australians, chinese, russians are the scum of the earth. The Badge "scum" is not owned by a people or race, its universal and at the same time, specific to an individual. which is why care needs to be taken when labeling people anything other then "people".

This post was edited by ferdia on Mar 21 2022 06:38am

I'm not sure how much control Zelensky actually has over the military, I'd wager very little. He's more of a poster child for the resistance. He has done an excellent job of appealing to literally anyone that would listen internationally.

Not sure how many Ukrainian troops there are in Mariupol but we know that there are at least a few thousand of nazi battalion people there. I'm not sure the passage to leave was really extended to some of these people, hence they probably think it's either we fight until we die or get rounded up by the Russians and Chechens to get disappeared.

edit: I think it's also pretty clear that Mariupol will be one of the cities capitulated to the breakaway regions. So if that's the case, from an Ukrainian perspective, who cares if its turned to rubble.

This post was edited by ofthevoid on Mar 21 2022 06:41am

... Right... Btw Foreign Prime minister congratulated Tucker Carlson for his good job.

Sergey Lavrov, during an English-language interview on RT, says that "only Fox News is trying to represent some alternative points of view" while calling the rest of the US press propaganda because "there is no such thing as an independent Western media."
https://twitter.com/justinbaragona/status/1504812959566077984




25% of Ukraine population has been displaced.

You are comparing war with peacetime? What you said that things will be worse for Ukraine in the future if Russia succeeds in it's goals than they were from 1991-2014 is just an assertion of yours. Its fine if that is your opinion but don't present it as fact



My point is that the picture of defiant Ukrainians against Russia isn't some intrinsic attribute of Ukraine but rather a product of the information war which is part of this proxy conflict. We can look at indicators sure - IMO the numbers show a HUGE flight from Kiev, capital cities with millions of populatons don't go empty just like that no matter the public mood - but we can not know the accurate reality.