Quote (Djunior @ Mar 5 2023 06:57am)
Promises can be stepped on, we fooled them, lol. Got it.
Bolded: Complete nonsense.
I'm arguing that Russia's reaction is completely understandable, and it is.
1) NATO expansion --> Voice your concern, put up with it
2) Next round of NATO expansion --> repeat
3) Next round of NATO expansion --> repeat
4) NATO announces they welcome Ukraine and Georgia's bid for membership --> red line crossed (Russian minorities in Eastern Ukraine, Crimea, naval fleet, Black Sea control, borders Russia, enough is enough).
Did you follow the debate? I posted this before, this is how the West reacts when tiny Solomon Islands (far away from the West) negotiate a security deal with China.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/20/the-deal-that-shocked-the-world-inside-the-china-solomons-security-pacthttps://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/26/us-wont-rule-out-military-action-if-china-establishes-base-in-solomon-islandsStop being a hypocrite dude
We didn't fool them, because the Russians then, or now, weren't the complete ignoramuses your narrative paints them as. Whatever was discussed behind closed doors, they had to know any commitment to not expand NATO eastward at that time was subject to commitments written on paper and the next administration's assessment of whether that commitment should be held. The Obama administration signed a nuclear deal with Iran, and Trump scrapped it. Do you think Iran was unaware that was a possbility? Are you arguing that the Russians are so inferior intellectually as to not understand the same sort of thing could've happened? Commitments between countries are made on paper. The words from a Secretary of State don't mean much if the administration he represents doesn't commit it to paper.
Ukraine and Georgia weren't even on the road to joining NATO when Russia invaded their countries. That's just another bullshit Russian talking point, like the idea that the US orchestrated the uprising in Ukraine.
This is consistent with your posts so far though. You look at Eastern European countries that have been historically subjegated by Russia as beholden to the West. You think they don't actually want to join the West, they are pressured. And when the Ukranians overthrow their Russian-aligned leader, you attribute it to the West.
It's just detached from reality. Eastern European countries(including Ukraine) want to align more closely with the West and less closely with Russia because of obvious reasons, like their desire for sovereignty, freedom, economic opportunity, etc. Russia is a backwards country surviving from their oil and nuclear weapons. They are a relic of a world that we are moving past, and Ukrainians understand that.